House Church Talk - Re: Elders

[james and l;oretta friesen]

Dear Friends
On the topic of elders. I am writing a book on the early church the
following is part of it

The church a copy of the synagogue
 When the Jews were in exile in Babylon they could no longer go to the
temple at Jerusalem. Instead they met together on the sabbath (Saturday) to
listen to the law and hear it explained. When they returned, they built
local meeting-houses for this purpose. These were the first 'synagogues'
(the Greek word synagein means 'to meet together').


By the time of Jesus, most Jews outside Jerusalem normally met together on
the sabbath  at the local synagogue. The service at the synagogue was mainly
for readings from the Bible (usually a passage from the law and one from the
Prophets) and prayers.

 The service began with the shema: 'Hear, O Israel, the LORD our God is one
lord; and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all
your soul, and with all your might.' The Bible passages were read in Hebrew.
But since most Jews in Palestine at the time of Christ spoke Aramaic, an
interpreter gave a verse-by-verse translation and explanation (a targum).
Sometimes there was also a sermon.

 Every synagogue had a chest ('ark') in which the scrolls of the law were
kept. The leaders sat in front of the ark, facing the people. Men and women
sat separately.

 Jesus went regularly to the synagogue, and read and taught there. Paul, on
his missionary journeys, went first to the synagogue in each town, and spoke
there.

 The synagogue served as the local school and as the center for local
government as well as worship. Deuteronomy 5:4-5; Luke 4: 16-30; 6:6; Acts
13:14-18; 14:1, and other references in Acts.

 The synagogue was the most important institution in the life of any Jew.
There was a difference between the synagogues and the Temple. There was only
one Temple, the Temple in Jerusalem, but wherever there was the smallest
colony of Jews there was a synagogue. The Temple existed solely for the
offering of  sacrifice; in it there was no preaching or teaching. The
synagogue was essentially a teaching institution. The synagogues have been
defined as "the popular religious universities of their day". If a man had
any religious teaching or religious ideas to disseminate, the synagogue was
unquestionably the place to start.

 Further, the synagogue service was such that it gave the new teacher his
chance. In the synagogue service, there were three parts. The first part
consisted of prayers. The second part consisted of readings from the law and
from the prophets, readings in which seven members of the congregation took
part. The third part was the address. The important fact is that there was
no one person to give the address. There was no such thing as a professional
ministry. The president of the synagogue presided over the arrangements for
the service. Any distinguished stranger could be asked to give the address,
and anyone with a message to give might volunteer to give it; and, if the
ruler or president of the synagogue judged him to be a fit person to speak,
he was allowed to speak. Thus, at the beginning, the door of the synagogue
and the pulpit of the synagogue were open to Jesus. He began in the
synagogue because it was there he would find the most sincerely religious
people of his day, and the way to speak to them was open to him. After the
address,  there came a time for talk, and questions, and discussion. The
synagogue was the ideal place in which to get a new teaching across to the
people.

 It was during the last centuries just before Christ that the group later
known as the Pharisees seem to have organized a school system. Children
first went to school in the synagogue, "the house of the book'. Further
education then took place in "the house of study". Many of these were under
the direction of famous rabbis.
The elders of the Church is the replacement for the president of the
synagogue.the question was is Elder an office of the church Answer yes.Titus
1:5-95The reason I left you in Crete was that you might straighten out what
was left unfinished and appointA elders in every town, as I directed you.
6An elder must be blameless, the husband of but one wife, a man whose
children believe and are not open to the charge of being wild and
disobedient. 7Since an overseer is entrusted with God's work, he must be
blameless--not overbearing, not quick-tempered, not given to drunkenness,
not violent, not pursuing dishonest gain. 8Rather he must be hospitable, one
who loves what is good, who is self-controlled, upright, holy and
disciplined. 9He must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been
taught, so that he can encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those
who oppose it.
Verse sounds like an office to me 7Since an overseer is entrusted with God's
work. 1Tim 5:17 The elders who direct the affairs of the church well are
worthy of double honor, especially those whose work is preaching and
teaching.
So them bisop elder pastor are the same office. I have a little trouble with
the word pastor as it means sheperd Jesus is the sheperd we are the sheep.
It would seem from Scripture the there is always more than one Elder in
every Church
James friesen

----- Original Message ----- 

From: <House Church Talk -request at housechurch.org>
To: <House Church Talk  at housechurch.org>
Sent: Friday, September 03, 2004 10:00 AM
Subject: House Church Talk  Digest, Vol 3, Issue 263


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> Today's Topics:
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>    1. Re: Fw: [EDG] New Polling Question (Adamkwyhmed at aol.com)
>    2. Re: Fw: [EDG] New Polling Question (Glenn Frank)
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> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 03:15:38 EDT
> From: Adamkwyhmed at aol.com
> Subject: Re: House Church Talk -  Fw: [EDG] New Polling Question
> To: House Church Talk  at housechurch.org
> Message-ID: <1cf.2a0b3492.2e69741a at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> In a message dated 9/2/04 9:08:53 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> jesusislord343 at juno.com writes:
>
> 1) What  is a 'Pastor'? (based on your understanding of scripture  and
> history)
>
>
> He that is to lead, be head of a church, is to be servant to all.  Not
> neccessarily a society based definition, but it is a Biblical  one.
>
>
>
> 2)  In a 'house church' style church (where everyone is expected to
> contribute  and no formal "service" is practiced like in an institutional
> style church)  which also practices eldership/team leadership... what are
> the
> primary  roles of the Elders?
>
>
> To help the rest of the congregation; like the elders/desciples appointed
by
> Moses/servant of all Israel, to reduce the burdens he bore.  It  makes it
> easier to meet the needs of the people/congregation, so that both the  one
who is
> leading/the servant of all the congregation, and the  elders/desciples may
be
> able to help more people with a quicker response; and  not to mention so
that
> burnout is less likely to occur to whom much  responsibility has been
given.
> Jesus did the same - the 12  desciples.  The elders meet the same needs
met
> by the pastor/servant of  all, under his leadership, all for the Glory of
G-d,
> not for the glory of  men.
>
> Sincerely,
> A Bond-Servant of the Lord Jesus,
> Adam Waggoner
>
> P.S.
> Even the founding fathers of America did the same in establing the  best
and
> productive way for all the needs of its citizenry to be  met.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 03 Sep 2004 00:41:10 -0700
> From: Glenn Frank <glennfrank at earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: House Church Talk -  Fw: [EDG] New Polling Question
> To: <House Church Talk  at housechurch.org>
> Message-ID: <BD5D6E26.E331%glennfrank at earthlink.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> Hi Adam..
>
> The answers you gave are pretty much accepted across the board in most
> Christian circles all over the united states... And the world even... But,
I
> think maybe if you remove any preconceptions and experiences regarding
> "pastors" and "elders", you might find the bible speaks differently about
> them.
>
>
> Check out "Pastor" again in the Bible...
> 1) Where does it say it is an 'office' of the church? Is it an "office"?
> 2) Where does it say a pastor is to be the head of a church?
> 3) what does the Bible say the role and reason for a pastor is?
>
>
> And regarding 'Elders'... Are you sure they are subordinate/helpers to the
> pastor?
>
> 1) Check out where (and how many times) the Bible mentions elders in the
> context of the church and what were they doing?
> 2) Is "elder" an office of leadership and if so... How do you see their
> leadership role and to whom are they responsible?
> 3) how many elders seem to be mentioned in most every church where elders
> are mentioned? One? Or more than one?
>
>
> Something else to think about... Was the church supposed to follow the
moses
> model? ... Can we really verify in the NT church that they followed this
> advice from Moses' Father in Law? (the one head guy with a team of
> subordinate helpers?)
>
>
>
> Just some fuel for the discussion.
>
> ;-)
>
>
> Glenn Frank
>
>
>
> On 9/3/04 12:15 AM, "Adamkwyhmed at aol.com" <Adamkwyhmed at aol.com> wrote:
>
> > In a message dated 9/2/04 9:08:53 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> > jesusislord343 at juno.com writes:
> >
> > 1) What  is a 'Pastor'? (based on your understanding of scripture  and
> > history)
> >
> >
> > He that is to lead, be head of a church, is to be servant to all.  Not
> > neccessarily a society based definition, but it is a Biblical  one.
> >
> >
> >
> > 2)  In a 'house church' style church (where everyone is expected to
> > contribute  and no formal "service" is practiced like in an
institutional
> > style church)  which also practices eldership/team leadership... what
are
> > the
> > primary  roles of the Elders?
> >
> >
> > To help the rest of the congregation; like the elders/desciples
appointed  by
> > Moses/servant of all Israel, to reduce the burdens he bore.  It  makes
it
> > easier to meet the needs of the people/congregation, so that both the
one who
> > is
> > leading/the servant of all the congregation, and the  elders/desciples
may be
> > able to help more people with a quicker response; and  not to mention so
that
> > burnout is less likely to occur to whom much  responsibility has been
given.
> > Jesus did the same - the 12  desciples.  The elders meet the same needs
met
> > by the pastor/servant of  all, under his leadership, all for the Glory
of G-d,
> > not for the glory of  men.
> >
> > Sincerely,
> > A Bond-Servant of the Lord Jesus,
> > Adam Waggoner
> >
> > P.S.
> > Even the founding fathers of America did the same in establing the  best
and
> > productive way for all the needs of its citizenry to be  met.
> >
> >
> >   --- Info and subscription management at
https://housechurch.org/talk ---
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
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> End of House Church Talk  Digest, Vol 3, Issue 263
> ***************************************


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