House Church Talk - Re: Real Christians

[Dan Beaty]

Glenn,

Your conclusion that Paul's letter to the Corinthians indicated that he
regretted his efforts on Mars Hill does not add up. If Paul felt that
reasoning with people from where they were was a waste of time, he would not
have continued to appeal to people intellectually for the rest of his life.

Consider these numerous references:

Acts 17:2  And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath
days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,
Acts 17:17  Therefore disputed he in the synagogue with the Jews, and with
the devout persons, and in the market daily with them that met with him.
Acts 18:4  And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the
Jews and the Greeks.
Acts 18:19  And he came to Ephesus, and left them there: but he himself
entered into the synagogue, and reasoned with the Jews.
Acts 19:8  And he went into the synagogue, and spake boldly for the space of
three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of
God.
Acts 19:9  But when divers were hardened, and believed not, but spake evil
of that way before the multitude, he departed from them, and separated the
disciples, disputing daily in the school of one Tyrannus.
Acts 20:7  And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came
together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the
morrow; and continued his speech (dialegomai, or "reasoning")  until
midnight.
Acts 24:25  And as he reasoned of righteousness, temperance, and judgment to
come, Felix trembled, and answered, Go thy way for this time; when I have a
convenient season, I will call for thee.
Acts 28:23  And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him
into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God,
persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of
the prophets, from morning till evening.

Any serious reading of Paul's letters would find Paul's use of logic
(reason) throughout.  Certainly his passion for what he believed would not
be missed either. But as Jeff L indicated, his desire was that "by all
means" he could convice of truth and "save some."

Dan Beaty
Columbus, Ohio
www.livingtruth.com


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Glenn Frank" <glennfrank at earthlink.net>
To: <House Church Talk  at housechurch.org>
Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2004 12:01 AM
Subject: Re: House Church Talk -  Re: Real Christians


> On 9/16/04 6:55 PM, "RoyalHeirling at aol.com" <RoyalHeirling at aol.com> wrote:
>
> > Perhaps Paul was just being weak among the weak, under the law among
those
> > under the law, and intellectual with the intellects, so that he might
save
> > some.
> > I thought his discourse was to inform them of the only God to which they
> > referred to as the unknown god. Am I mixed up here?
>
>
> I know that is the typical view of the passage when he speaks to the
> Areopagus, And I am sure it was Paul's intent to win them to Christ by
> showing them who God really was... But it seems to me when you look at the
> results of it, the way people just got all philosophical about it and
liked
> discussing it for the sake of the philosophical implications... It never
got
> down to their heart. And if we take paul's words to the Corinthians about
> his visit to them after having been in Athens... It seems one can almost
> hear his emphasis and maybe regret for having delved into the
philosophical
> too much... For he wants to know Christ and his death on the cross and
> preach that to them. Get to the crux of the issue.
>
> I'm sure that what Paul gave to the philosophers of Athens was where they
> were at... And they ate it up because they liked  to discuss new ideas...
> But they were not really confronted by it and they did not turn to Jesus
> because of it.
>
> While there is validity in trying to bring the message of the Gospel to
> people where they are at, I think Paul realized that getting back to the
> basics means relying on God's power, not on eloquent speech or fancy
> words... Or deep philosophical rhetoric.
>
> I think maybe that too many people have wanted to model all their ministry
> after the model of mars hill... And never find themselves going back to
the
> simple basics that Paul speaks of in 1 Corinthians.
>
>
> Glenn
>
>
>
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