House Church Talk - Re: the last recorded words of Jesus

SameSpecies samespecies at
Thu Apr 8 22:25:20 EDT 2004

I apologize brothers, I am not very good at expressing myself and I think
from reading Dan's comments I may have given some the wrong impression.  I
certainly agree with Dan's comments.  In fact what I wanted to point out in
Eph 4:1-3 is it, is by the Holy Spirit that we have the fruit of humility,
gentleness, patience, love, etc.  God has done all and is doing all.  I was
trying to say that we can only dwell in Him, the Lord Spirit, then the Holy
Spirit produces thought us (the vessels) His fruit.  Not our fruit or works,
but His.  It is not by our works, in fact the good works we were created for
are His good works or His good work, we are just the vessels so God can have
His image, His expression in us again.  So the Spirit can produce the
Spirit's fruit, that's why it is called the fruit of the Spirit.  When we
say let faith have her perfect works, we also need to realize what faith is,
it again is from God, it is the substance of the thing not seen, the thing
hoped for, the scriptures in 2 Cor 4:13 call's faith "the Spirit of Faith".
1 Tim 1:1 says Christ Jesus is our hope.  What I want us to think about is
that the calling by which we were called, is not a calling like many
brothers in IC's have asked me before after reading this verse.  They would
ask what is your calling, as in what is your ministry, your gifting, etc.
What I wanted us to think about is this; is it possible Paul is saying I am
a prisoner in the Lord, with the meaning of I am confined on all sides by
the Lord, I dwell in the Lord, He dwells in me, referring to the indwelling
of the Holy Spirit, and us dwelling in Him.  As the Lord prayed that we
would be one in Him, and He would be in us.  What I meant to say is the
calling is a Person in our spirit, the Spirit of Jesus Christ, the Holy
Spirit in us, God is Spirit.  Think about it this way, ask yourselves how
were you called, who called you, who sealed you, who are you to be lead by
if you are a son of God.  The answer is the Holy Spirit, the Spirit sealed
you, called you, we are lead by the Holy Spirit, it is the fruit of the
Spirit.  Then Paul goes on to say keep the unity of the Spirit.  So all I am
really saying is that in these three small verses, it that I see three
references to God as the Holy Spirit, the One we dwell in or are imprisoned
by, the One who called us, and it is this One we need to walk worthy of, and
the Spirit again stated as keep the unity of the Spirit.  Now I am not
trying to take this discussion in the direction of any kind of God-Head
debate, Trinity, or anything like that.  We all know that God is One, the
scriptures say God is Spirit, the last Adam became the life giving Spirit,
and the scriptures call our Lord the Spirit of Jesus Christ, and the Lord
Spirit.  So not trying to get side tracked on a debate about something like
the Trinity, what I wanted to point out is that allot of times when the
scriptures use words like "the calling", "faith", "hope", "love", "grace",
truth, life, etc., etc. we need to see that these words are referring to God
Himself in some way, often more then we might think at first.  For example
the Lord said I am the truth so I would type it this way "The Truth", He
said I am the Life.  God is Love, the Spirit is called in the scriptures
"the Spirit of Grace", it was not by the Apostle Paul's power or works but
by the Grace of God.  It is this Life, this Spirit from God, so instead of
typing it out "grace" as the KJ's translation does, I would type it out
capitalized as the Grace of God, because it is from God, because allot of
times not all, it is referring to the power of God, the Holy Spirit, it can
be found in the scriptures as "the Spirit of Grace".  Paul says in another
place that is why we have the three; Faith (Spirit), Hope (Christ), Love
(God).  God gets all the Glory, God wants His image, His expression in us.
Paul says it's not I that lives, but Christ in me.  We can't really bare any
true fruit that is our doing, it is the fruit of the Spirit.  That's why the
Lord said apart from the Vine you can not bare fruit.  In this example the
Lord is the Vine, we are the branches, the branches bare the fruit, but it
is the fruit of the Vine, it is the fruit of the Spirit, not our works,
because as it is said, all our works are as dirty rags.  Well, if I sounded
like I was saying we are saved by works, or if I sounded prideful, or I
sounded like I could call something into being, or anything like that I
apologize, I don't believe that at all.  It's not our works, if it is our
works we will be the ones the Lord says to them in that day I didn't know
you, you did all these things, and claimed my name, but I didn't know you,
you did them apart from me.  We have to be those ones who are lead by the
Spirit, these are the sons of God.  When it says and much more we are saved
in His life, we need to realize that it is His present life now, the Life
giving Spirit, the Lord Jesus said "I am the Life".  When Paul says "Grace
to you", he is saying basically the same thing he said in another place,
this way, "the Spirit of the Lord be with your spirit".

Now, I don't know why Isa. 42:5-7 got [SNIP], I don't really know what SNIP
means, I assume it means I don't agree, which is fine.  By quoting Isa.
42:5-7, I was just trying to point out that it's all about the Lord.  God is
the One who gives Life, Jesus said I am the Life, the Way, the Truth.  In
Isa. we also can see that the Lord is the covenant mediator, Christ is the
mediator between man and God, He is also the Covenant, the New Covenant,
it's all about the Lord.  He is the Light, the Light that cast out darkness.
Well, I hope you got a better idea of what I was talking about, sorry I
don't express myself to good at times, and I hope I didn't offend anyone.  I
hope no one thought that I was saying I was God or the Lord, He's God were
not, we die to self, He lives, He gets the glory, He gets the expression, He
gets His image in the church.

GrAcE, God as Enjoyment, as Life, as the Spirit to us all,


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "flash" <flash at>
To: <House Church Talk  at>
Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 10:43 AM
Subject: House Church Talk -  Re: the last recorded words of Jesus

> Mike wrote:
> > "that is certainly no small task"  Amen, to that Sean, I would even go
further and say, for
> us it is an impossible task to accomplish, if it is us, then I would say
it is only something
> that will look good on the outside and last for a little while.  But, if
we remain a prisoner
> in the Lord, Eph 4:1 "I, therefore, the prisoner for the Lord", and if we
walk worthily of THE
> CALLING by which we were called, Eph 4:1 " worthily of the calling
with which you have
> been called", and if we keep the Unity of The Spirit in the Bond of Peace,
Eph 4:3 "keep the
> unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.", then we will express the fruit
of The Spirit which
> includes humility, gentleness, patience, love for one another, etc.,
etc.,Eph 4:2 "with all
> humility and gentleness, with patience, bearing with one another in
love,".  Praise the Lord,
> He said "My Peace" I will give you.  Praise the Spirit of Jesus Christ,
God is Spirit, nothing
> is impossible in Christ Jesus, the Lord Spirit.
> <SNIP>
> > The Spirit of Grace to us all,
> >
> > Mike
> I find these verses to speak against pride, and also to acknowledge what
you say here Mike.  I
> did not call myself into this creation, I cannot call myself out.  So,
from thence I say God
> has done all, and is doing all - in me, in you, and even in Ross ;-) with
> dispensationalism...
> All knowledge, all decision, all life is of God which worketh in us.
Context being important
> also, I find no other scripture that will defy these principles stated
here in Phillipians.
> This is why I cannot see thru to dispensations which clearly (seemingly)
sez people are saved
> by their works according to the law.
> Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour is the sole authority in all things.  As
we all learn, and
> hope for when we see heaven with Jesus - this reality is what all of
creation points to and is
> the sole story of the gospel.
> Php 2:12-13 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my
presence only, but
> now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and
trembling.  For it is
> God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
> Dan ChicagoArea
>     --- Info and subscription management at ---

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