House Church Talk - Baptisms and Administrations
bwood4d at hotmail.com
Thu Feb 5 19:17:04 EST 2004
You wrote:"It seems to me that the idea of baptisms being rooted in Judaic
ritual is most prominently observed in Mark 7:4 which speaks of the
Pharisees baptizing cups, pots, brasen vessels, and beds / tables. Then came
together unto him the Pharisees, and certain of the scribes, which came from
Jerusalem. And when they saw some of his disciples eat bread with defiled,
that is to say, with unwashen, hands, they found fault. For the Pharisees,
and all the Jews, except they wash (baptizontai) their hands oft, eat not,
holding the tradition of the elders. And when they come from the market,
except they wash, they eat not. And many other things there be, which they
have received to hold, as the washing (baptismous) of cups, and pots, brasen
vessels, and of tables. Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, Why walk
not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread
with unwashen hands? (Mark 7:1-5 KJV) Luke also has a passage in which the
Pharisees marvelled that Jesus had not first baptized before dinner. And as
he spake, a certain Pharisee besought him to dine with him: and he went in,
and sat down to meat. And when the Pharisee saw it, he marvelled that he had
not first washed (baptizo) before dinner. (Luke 11:37-38 KJV)"
David, I have never denied that baptisms were definitely a part of old
covenant rituals. In fact, I have found over 20 instances of baptisms in the
old covenant scriptures! What I have denied is the assertion that PEOPLE
(i.e. entire persons) were ever baptized by others in the O.T. Old covenant
baptisms (except for Naaman's self baptism in the Jordan) were all baptisms
of objects or individual body parts such as hands or feet. That is why I
said something to the effect that John's baptisms of people were the very
first baptisms of persons by another person ever recorded in the scriptures.
So the claim that water baptism of people under the new covenant is a
continuation of an old testament ritual practice is just not true!
But let's move on to your other point of correction. I had written:"Ross, I
believe that the last person John baptized was the Lord Jesus, Himself! We
never read of John baptizing any others after he had introduced the Lord
Jesus publicly and testified that it was he who would baptize people with
the Holy Spirit and with fire."
In response, you wrote:"Is this only an argument from the silence of
Scripture or do you have some reason to believe that John stopped baptizing
after he baptized Jesus? In any case, I think you are overlooking passages
which indicate that Jesus and John both were baptizing at the same time.
Consider the following passages: After these things came Jesus and his
disciples into the land of Judaea; and THERE HE TARRIED WITH THEM, AND
BAPTIZED. AND JOHN ALSO WAS BAPTIZING in Aenon near to Salim, because there
was much water there: and they came, and were baptized. For John was not yet
cast into prison. Then there arose a question between some of John's
disciples and the Jews about purifying. And they came unto John, and said
unto him, Rabbi, he that was with thee beyond Jordan, to whom thou barest
witness, behold, the same baptizeth, and all men come to him. (John 3:22-26
KJV) When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that JESUS
MADE AND BAPTIZED MORE DISCIPLES than John, (Though Jesus himself baptized
not, but his disciples,) He left Judaea, and departed again into Galilee.
(John 4:1-3 KJV) I would be interested in hearing your comments."
Dear brother, thank you for reminding me of the passage in John 3 about John
baptizing at Aenon while Jesus' disciples were baptizing in Judea. Without
question this proves that my statement, "We never read of John baptizing
any others after he had introduced the Lord Jesus publicly ..." was wrong!
Thank you for bringing this to my attention. I had simply relied on my own
memory when I made that statement. Not a wise move!!
Your brother in Christ,
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