House Church Talk - Re: Was baptisms Now dispensations again

Bruce Woodford bwood4d at
Fri Feb 6 19:27:59 EST 2004

Hi Dan,

I think I understand a little better where you are coming from now! I too 
was raised in a thoroughgoing dispensational background in which the likes 
of the "Late Great Planet Earth" and the "Left Behind Series" would have 
been "the cat's meow"!  However, in recent years, I have come to reject many 
dispensational doctrines such as "the pre-trib rapture" the"7 year 
tribulation", "the imminent return of Christ" etc etc.  The reason for 
rejecting each and every one of these was simply that they are never stated 
in scripture! I do not believe that any doctrine is a scriptural doctrine 
which is not stated in words of scripture!

Come to think about it, I don't think the Lord Jesus ever did promise to 
return "soon"!  Only "quickly"! (Rev.22:7,12,20)

I do not see any difficulty at all with the expression "this generation" in 
Mat thew 24:34, Mark 13:30 and Luke 21:32.  The Lord Jesus did NOT say to the 
disciples with whom He was actually speaking , "YOUR GENERATION shall not 
pass until all be fulfilled"! Rather he described events that would take 
place and be observed by the people who lived contemporaneously with ALL 
those prophesied events. (Matt.24:33) Obviously some generations have 
witnessed events that are similar to SOME of the events Jesus described. 
However, the generation of which He spoke will see ALL of these events 
INCLUDING  a time of great tribulation followed immediately by the darkening 
of the sun, the moon being turned to blood, the stars falling from the 
heavens, the powers of the heavens being shaken, the sign of the Son of Man 
in heaven, all tribes of earth mourning when they see Him coming, and the 
angels being sent with the sound of a great trumpet to gather the elect from 
earth and heaven! (Matt.24:29-31)

It is the generation that sees ALL of these things that will know that THE 
END OF THE AGE (the subject about which the disciples had been asking in 
Matt.24:3) is "near, even at the doors." (24:33)
These events did NOT occur in A.D. 70 so the preterist view of Matt.24 does 
not hold any water whatsoever!

(Does this help to deal with the word "generation" in the specific context 
in which it is found without having to stretch some outlandish definition 
for a "generation" to fit one's theological or eschatological view?)

If we simply allow scripture to say exactly what it says (in the very words 
of scripture), I believe that we cannot deny that the coming of the Lord 
will be a post tribulation event. Therefore, we need to be prepared in mind 
and heart for a time of great tribulation during which the "little horn" of 
Daniel 7  or "the beast" of Rev.13 will make war with, prevail over, 
overcome  and wear out the saints who will be "given into his hand"  for a 
time, times a nd half a time. (Dan.7:21-25 and Rev.13:7)

We are not promised REST from trouble BEFORE the greatest time of trouble 
the world will ever see, but rather our rest is promised  WHEN THE LORD 

Personally, I cannot understand how the preterist view can be given any 
credence at all. Does anybody here hold this view? If so, could you explain 
it for me and how it accounts for ALL THE EVENTS of Matt 24 being fulfilled 
in A.D. 70?

Nor can the pre-tribulation rapture, the imminent return of Christ or the 7 
year tribulation theories be given any credence apart from any specific 
scriptural statements that teach such doctrines. Does anyone here know of 
any statements of scripture which teach these doctrines?

I believe that we must evaluate any and every doctrine by such scriptures as 
Psalm 12:6; Proverbs 30:5,6 and I Cor.2:12,13.

Thanks Dan! I hope to hear more from you and others on these things.

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