House Church Talk - Re: Was baptisms Now dispensations again

Flash flash at
Sat Feb 7 22:15:07 EST 2004

> It is the generation that sees ALL of these things that will know that THE
> END OF THE AGE (the subject about which the disciples had been asking in
> Matt.24:3) is "near, even at the doors." (24:33)
> These events did NOT occur in A.D. 70 so the preterist view of Matt.24
> not hold any water whatsoever!
> (Does this help to deal with the word "generation" in the specific context
> in which it is found without having to stretch some outlandish definition
> for a "generation" to fit one's theological or eschatological view?)
> If we simply allow scripture to say exactly what it says (in the very
> of scripture), I believe that we cannot deny that the coming of the Lord
> will be a post tribulation event. Therefore, we need to be prepared in
> and heart for a time of great tribulation during which the "little horn"
> Daniel 7  or "the beast" of Rev.13 will make war with, prevail over,
> overcome  and wear out the saints who will be "given into his hand"  for a
> time, times a nd half a time. (Dan.7:21-25 and Rev.13:7)
> We are not promised REST from trouble BEFORE the greatest time of trouble
> the world will ever see, but rather our rest is promised  WHEN THE LORD
> LORD JESUS CHRIST!  II Thess.1:6-10
> Personally, I cannot understand how the preterist view can be given any
> credence at all. Does anybody here hold this view? If so, could you
> it for me and how it accounts for ALL THE EVENTS of Matt 24 being
> in A.D. 70?
> Nor can the pre-tribulation rapture, the imminent return of Christ or the
> year tribulation theories be given any credence apart from any specific
> scriptural statements that teach such doctrines. Does anyone here know of
> any statements of scripture which teach these doctrines?
> I believe that we must evaluate any and every doctrine by such scriptures
> Psalm 12:6; Proverbs 30:5,6 and I Cor.2:12,13.
> Thanks Dan! I hope to hear more from you and others on these things.
> Bruce

Thanks for taking up some more of this thread, Bruce.

Mt 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all
these things be fulfilled.
This stated by Jesus would seem to be clear to the people standing in its
hearing to be "this generation" and not some explanation such as anyone
these days provides, even the one you give.  Additionally, to accept a
loooong time for fulfillment of "this generation" becomes a real problem it
seems when you read Luke which uses that phrase "this generation" more
frequently.  Particularly:  Lu 17:25 But first must he suffer many things,
and be rejected of this generation.

Your statement that these events did not happen at AD70 speak from history
which we know to make liars of us all.  The converse to your assertion rests
on the same faulty history, therefore, it seems the concept of Jesus' return
on/about AD70 is open for acceptance or discussion.  We do not have God's
record of events at/around AD70 therefore it is false to make any assertions
one way or the other about what happened then.  Come along and assume that
Jesus did return then.  The events of that time were certainly within the
realm of tribulation, and certainly 7 years.  The whole of Judaisim was
destroyed, and all of christianity at Jerusalem was annihilated.  Beyond
those events, we do not know one way or another that the events which are
traditionally taken to mean all that involves Jesus' coming did or did not
happen then.  Assume with me that Jesus did come.  What does that mean of
our lives today?  How would you live differently?  What effect would that
have on your life in Christ today?

It is an experiment in thought for me at this juncture.  I detect a certain
standing in old water for you in your expressions, Bruce.  I am there along
with you, but am finding a desire to search elsewhere without challenge to
life in Christ.

Scott - I am not understanding what is being said by your quote - please
elaborate a bit more.
Dan ChicagoArea

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