House Church Talk - Baptisms and Administrations
bwood4d at hotmail.com
Fri Mar 5 14:17:23 EST 2004
I certainly agree with you that Israel had many advantages over other
nations. They had a covenant with God, the scriptures, the prophets, it was
through them that Christ came etc etc. But that did not make them SUPERIOR
as the EMTV states in Rom.3:1! Superiority makes one BETTER than others.
But Paul asks in Rom.3:9, "Are we (Jews) better than they (Gentiles)?" And
his answer is "No. In no wise."
You also wrote:"If individuals wanted a relationship with God, they formerly
had to come through the covenant nation of Israel."
Where in scripture do you find this idea taught? Job certainly had a
relationship with God but as far as we know had no contact whatsover with
In II Chron.36:22,23 we learn that King Cyrus received instructions from God
re. the building of the temple in Jerusalem. God calls Cyrus, "My shepherd"
(Isaiah 44:28) and "mine anointed" (Isaiah 45:1). But no Israelite was an
INTERMEDIARY by which Cyrus had such a relationship with God!
The wise men of Mat thew 2 had revelation from God relative to the birth of
the King of the Jews which was apart from contact with Israel. God also
spoke to them in a dream regarding their return to their own land which had
nothing to do with "coming through the covenant nation of Israel".
I also agree with you that Israel had a unique covenant relationship with
God by the covenant (The ten commandments) made with them at Sinai. But the
Lord Jesus' command to his disciples to make disciples of all nations and to
baptize those disciples was made AFTER the old covenant had come to an end
at the death of Christ and the rending of the veil of the temple from the
top to the bottom! His command for them to baptize the disciples they would
make of all nations had to do, NOT with the old covenant which was dedicated
with the sprinkling of animal blood (Ex.24) but rather with the new covenant
that was dedicated with the shedding of the precious blood of Christ,
So brother, I am not at all certain that I understand your point at all!
What specificly do YOU see about John's ministry and baptism under the old
covenant, the Lord's disciples baptizing people under the old covenant and
the Lord Jesus' commission to baptize disciples under the new covenant that
relates to the present day practice of baptizing believers in water??
There were sprinklings which were not baptisms under the old covenant. There
were baptisms which were not sprinklings under the old covenant. And
baptisms of the new covenant are not sprinklings at all.
I think we are both agreed that there were baptisms practiced under the old
covenant, and there is a baptism in the Spirit under the new covenant which
is accomplished by God in which men have no responsibility. But the
subject of our discussion (the baptism of believers in water) a baptism
which is commanded and which is the responsibility of men under the new
covenant is the one upon which we do not seem to agree.
If I have understood you correctly, you have claimed that the "end of the
age" (Matt.28:20) was when the church , which is Christ's body, began. Thus
water baptism of believers was to cease at that point and thus is obsolete
and totally out of place today.
Brother, if this doctrine is correct, it will be stated in the very words of
scripture as all scriptural doctrines are! If this doctrine is NOT stated
in the very words of scripture it is NOT a scriptural doctrine but rather is
an invention of men as all doctrines are which are not stated in the very
words of scripture.
So please, let us not continue to reason and deduce and come to conclusions
never stated in the Book. If you can show your conclusion on this matter in
the very words of scripture,(as Ps.12:6; Prov.30:5,6 and I Cor.2:13
indicate) I will immediately concede that you are correct. However, if you
are unable to state your doctrine in the very words of scripture, are YOU
willing to acknowledge that what you have claimed is NOT a scriptural
This matter need not be an unresolved issue. Let us allow the scriptures to
be the final arbiter.
Looking forward to your response.
Your brother in Christ,
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