House Church Talk - Re: Were women silent during the first house church meeting?

[Claire Bennett]

I am going to assume that the first house church meeting was Pentecost.
There were women among those who gathered waiting for the Holy Spirit.
Since women were among those speaking in tongues, proclaiming the word of
the Lord, I am assuming this is considered speaking in the church, and not
only speaking in the church, preaching to unbelievers.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: <House Church Talk -request at housechurch.org>
To: <House Church Talk  at housechurch.org>
Sent: Monday, April 26, 2004 9:00 AM
Subject: House Church Talk  Digest, Vol 3, Issue 119


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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: Look who Jesus Chose (Glenn Frank)
>    2. Re: Look who Jesus Chose (Bruce Woodford)
>    3. Re: House Church Talk  Digest, Vol 3, Issue 118 - Jesus chooses
>       (Claire Bennett)
>    4. Re: Look who Jesus Chose (Dan Beaty)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 10:13:16 -0700
> From: Glenn Frank <glennfrank at earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: House Church Talk -  Look who Jesus Chose
> To: House Church Talk <House Church Talk  at housechurch.org>
> Message-ID: <BCB13FBC.B0A1%glennfrank at earthlink.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> Does anyone think maybe that the gifts mentioned in Eph 4, while they
might
> very well speak of church leaders, might also speak of the Body in
general?
>
> For instance... There might very well be those gifted as evangelists... or
> Pastors... But they might not necessarily be elders or official leaders of
> the church.
>
> Just because one is gifted in a way like that and is called to equip the
> body for service does not necessarily mean they are also a 'governing
elder'
> or anything like that.
>
> I think part of the church has ignored this section of Ephesians because
> they think it is only talking to the 'clergy' and is not relevant to
> 'laity'.
>
>
>
>
>
> On 4/25/04 7:18 AM, "Dan Beaty" <dlbeaty at copper.net> wrote:
>
> > Glenn,
> >
> > Any room on that soap box for me?
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Glenn Frank" <glennfrank at earthlink.net>
> >
> >> Yet we see that Jesus made them in to Leaders...
> >> When they were filled with the Spirit...
> >>
> >> True, there are some people who will take on more overt roles as
leaders
> > in
> >> the church, but all believers are called to be leaders of some sort.
That
> > is
> >> where the fallacy of the "clergy and Laity" distinction is in error.
> >> Everyone in the body should be active, not passive in their role in the
> >> church body. Otherwise they are not fulfilling the many "one-another"
> >> commands. Distinguishing some as clnce  and others as laity only breeds
> >> incorrect assumptions about the levels of leadership and responsibility
in
> >> the church.
> >>
> >> (Ok... I am down off my soap box now)
> >
> > That is my main reasoning that "silent women in the assembly" seems
> > inconsistent to what God is doing today in house church, and other small
> > group settings. There are so many places in the NT where "every member,
the
> > functioning of every part, every gift " is emphasized. This is not to
> > downplay leadership, as some have done, and even some attempt to
eliminate
> > it altogether. The real need is to release every gift, including the
> > equipping gifts, so that the whole body can be built up.
> >
> > Dan B.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >   --- Info and subscription management at
https://housechurch.org/talk ---
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 16:37:52 -0400
> From: "Bruce Woodford" <bwood4d at hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: House Church Talk -  Look who Jesus Chose
> To: House Church Talk  at housechurch.org
> Message-ID: <BAY10-F77QwUZ6M2YQR000285fc at hotmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
>
> Dear Brother Dan,
>
> You wrote:"That is my main reasoning that "silent women in the assembly"
> seems inconsistent to what God is doing today in house church, and other
> small group settings. There are so many places in the NT where "every
> member, the functioning of every part, every gift " is emphasized. This is
> not to downplay leadership, as some have done, and even some attempt to
> eliminate it altogether. The real need is to release every gift, including
> the equipping gifts, so that the whole body can be built up."
>
> Brother, the silence of women in the assembly is not inly inconsistent
with
> what God is doing TODAY in house churches, but it has ALWAYS been
> inconsistent with what God has done in house churches from the Day of
> Pentecost onward!
>
> The silence of women is NEVER associated with house church gatherings in
> scripture at all!  Scriptural records of gatherings of churches in houses
> repeatedly include the vocal participation of sisters AND the breaking of
> bread. I would challenge anyone to show from scripture that the silence of
> women in house gatherings of believers was ever practiced by the first
> century church or is ever commanded in scripture!
>
> The kind of gatherings in scripture where there is NEVER any record of
> female vocal participation and where the "not to speak" kind of silence of
> women is SPECIFICLY COMMANDED is in whole church gatherings in cities. I
> would also challenge anyone who claims that women may scripturally
> participate vocally in whole church gatherings  to demonstrate this
position
> from scriptural examples of whole church gatherings and also from
scriptural
> examples of instructions which regulate whole church gatherings!
>
> You are absolutely right that,"There are so many places in the NT where
> "every member, the functioning of every part, every gift " is emphasized."
>
> However, in I Cor.14 there are two expressions which have been
misunderstood
> and misapplied by many because they failed to observe...
> (1)the context of the instructions (whole church gatherings in one place)
> and
> (2) those to whom those commands are directed (males)!
> Those two expressions are found in verses 26 and 31:  " when ye come
> together  every one of you hath a psalm..."  and " ye may all prophesy one
> by one ..."   Many have assumed that these expressions are addressed to
all
> in the church, i.e. men and women.  This is just not true!  All of the
> commands of I Cor 14 are directed to MALES!
>
> There are many contextual reasons why I believe this is so:
> -From verse 6 onward, it is BRETHREN (males) who are specificly addressed.
> -It is the "brethren" who are commanded in verse 20.
> -It is "brethren" who are addressed in verse 26 to whom the instruction "
> when ye come together  every one of you hath a psalm..."   is addressed.
> -It is "brethren" who are informed " ye may all prophesy one by one ..."
> in verse 31.
> -It is "brethren" NOT sisters to whom the instructions relative to the
> silence of women are addressed in verses 34 and  35.
>
> These verses say, "Let YOUR women keep silence in the churches: for it is
> not permitted unto THEM to speak;  but THEY are commanded to be under
> obedience as also saith the law. And if THEY will learn anything, LET THEM
> ask THEIR husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the
> church."
>
> If these verses were actually addressed to women as well as men as many
have
> assumed, they would actually read as follows: "Let YOU women keep silence
in
> the churches: for it is not permitted unto YOU to speak;  but YOU are
> commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if YOU will
learn
> anything, ask YOUR husbands at home: for it is a shame for YOU to speak in
> the church."
>
> I hope this helps to put these scriptural instructions into their proper
and
> contextual background.
>
> Your brother in Christ,
> Bruce
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN Premium
>

>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 18:35:52 -0700
> From: "Claire Bennett" <clairebnntt at cox.net>
> Subject: House Church Talk -  Re: House Church Talk  Digest, Vol 3, Issue 118 - Jesus
> chooses
> To: <House Church Talk  at housechurch.org>
> Message-ID: <001601c42b2e$cf9fe8b0$0301a8c0 at selfxfdobitvdd>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> In the business world we have what is labeled "barriers to entry."  These
> barriars might be regulations, finances, lobbying efforts, prejudice, to
> name a few.  For example, a physician who trained outside the US cannot
> practice here except under very restricted conditions, courtesy of the
> well-funded medical lobby.  I have a friend who's Chinese mother speaks
> little English, however, she is the most incredible cook.  We were
> discussing how it would be fun and profitable if this lady could make some
> of her signature egg rolls and dumplings and sell them by the local
> university.  My friend looked into it and discovered it would take an
> investment of more than 20K to take care of all the necessary equipment,
> liscensing, insurance, legal papers etc.
>
> The Lord doesn't create barriers to entry - to his kingdom, to
> participation, to ministry...he opens doors, he makes paths through the
sea
> and calls things that are not as though they are.  He delights in using
the
> foolish and weak things, those despised in the eyes of the world.  I think
> he includes those who are foolish, weak and despised in the eyes of the
> (worldly thinking) church too :)
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <House Church Talk -request at housechurch.org>
> To: <House Church Talk  at housechurch.org>
> Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2004 9:00 AM
> Subject: House Church Talk  Digest, Vol 3, Issue 118
>
>
> > Send House Church Talk  mailing list submissions to
> > House Church Talk  at housechurch.org
> >
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> > https://housechurch.org/mailman/listinfo/House Church Talk 
> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> > House Church Talk -request at housechurch.org
> >
> > You can reach the person managing the list at
> > House Church Talk -owner at housechurch.org
> >
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Co&nbsts of House Church Talk  digest..."
> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> >    1. Look who Jesus Chose (Claire Bennett)
> >    2. Re: Look who Jesus Chose (Janet Murphy)
> >    3. Re: Look who Jesus Chose (rebelfire at juno.com)
> >    4. Re: Look who Jesus Chose (Janet Murphy)
> >    5. Re: Look who Jesus Chose (rebelfire at juno.com)
> >    6. Re: Look who Jesus Chose (Dan Beaty)
> >    7. harvest is great - laborers few (David Anderson)
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 10:56:16 -0700
> > From: "Claire Bennett" <clairebnntt at cox.net>
> > Subject: House Church Talk -  Look who Jesus Chose
> > To: <House Church Talk  at housechurch.org>
> > Message-ID: <01c801c42a25$7098dfc0$0301a8c0 at selfxfdobitvars
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> >
> > ON the subject of qualifications for ministry - just take a look at who
> Jesus chose.  Not exactly A-list.From glennfrank at earthlink.net Sat Apr 24
> 14:19:14 2004
> > Received: from invasion.mail.pas.earthlink.net
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> > for <House Church Talk  at housechurch.org>; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 14:19:13 -0400
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> > User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.1.2418
> > Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 11:29:52 -0700
> > Subject: Re: House Church Talk -  Look who Jesus Chose
> > From: Glenn Frank <glennfrank at earthlink.net>
> > To: House Church Talk <House Church Talk  at housechurch.org>
> > Message-ID: <BCB00030.B069%glennfrank at earthlink.net>
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> >
> > On 4/24/04 10:56 AM, "Claire Bennett" <clairebnntt at cox.net> wrote:
> >
> > > ON the subject of qualifications for ministry - just take a look at
who
> Jesus
> > > chose.  Not exactly A-list.
> > >
> >
> >
> > Very True Claire.
> >
> > The interesting thing to me was that although some of the disciples may
> have
> > had existing "leadership skills" or traits when they were called
> > (Personality wise - such as Simon Peter, or in their
> > political/social/religious fervor like Simon the Zealot) most of them
were
> > followers rather than leaders.
> >
> > Yet we see that Jesus made them in to Leaders...
> > When they were filled with the Spirit...
> >
> > True, there are some people who will take on more overt roles as leaders
> in
> > the church, but all believers are called to be leaders of some sort.
That
> is
> > where the fallacy of the "clergy and Laity" distinction is in error.
> > Everyone in the body should be active, not passive in their role in the
> > church body. Otherwise they are not fulfilling the many "one-another"
> > commands. Distinguishing some as clergy and others as laity only breeds
> > incorrect assumptions about the levels of leadership and responsibility
in
> > the church.
> >
> > (Ok... I am down off my soap box now)
> >
> > Glenn Frank
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 16:57:10 -0500
> > From: "Janet Murphy" <dreamgirl at indy.rr.com>
> > Subject: Re: House Church Talk -  Look who Jesus Chose
> > To: "House Church Talk" <House Church Talk  at housechurch.org>
> > Message-ID: <001901c42a47$197725e0$6501a8c0 at indy.rr.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> >
> > Claire ~
> > I have really been enjoying your posts.  Well thought out, and I don't
> find
> > you faulty of having an axe to grind.
> >
> > It kinda sounds like though if you actually meet Jonathan Lindvall, et
al,
> > people have a different take on things.  David Anderson seems to think
> > things are cool, as well as Dan Beaty.  I highly esteem both of these
> dudes.
> >
> > So, I'm wondering......do we all look different on paper, as opposed to
an
> > actual encounter in the flesh???  Does that tell us anything?  Inquring
> > minds want to know :-)
> >
> > Also, for David....you mentioned something about changing your opinions
on
> > women being silent?  Does that mean they should or shouldn't remain
> silent?
> >
> > Have a good weekend!  I've enjoyed reading all the posts on this thread!
> >
> > janet
> > www.janetmurphy.net
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: "Claire Bennett" <clairebnntt at cox.net>
> > To: <House Church Talk  at housechurch.org>
> > Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2004 12:56 PM
> > Subject: House Church Talk -  Look who Jesus Chose
> >
> >
> > ON the subject of qualifications for ministry - just take a look at who
> > Jesus chose.  Not exactly A-list.
> >
> >
> >     --- Info and subscription management at
> https://housechurch.org/talk ---
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 3
> > Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 22:35:54 GMT
> > From: rebelfire at juno.com
> > Subject: Re: House Church Talk -  Look who Jesus Chose
> > To: House Church Talk  at housechurch.org
> > Message-ID: <20040424.153650.22888.491033 at webmail19.lax.untd.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain
> >
> >
> > Well Janey, David and his family met with us last Sunday and I am pretty
> sure Carolyn did some speaking.  :-)
> >
> > RJ
> >
> >
> >
> > -- "Janet Murphy" <dreamgirl at indy.rr.com> wrote:
> >
> > >Also, for David....you mentioned something about changing your
>opinions
> on women being silent?  Does that mean they should or >shouldn't remain
> silent?
> >
> >
> > ________________________________________________________________
> > The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
> > Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
> > Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 4
> > Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 17:41:27 -0500
> > From: "Janet Murphy" <dreamgirl at indy.rr.com>
> > Subject: Re: House Church Talk -  Look who Jesus Chose
> > To: "House Church Talk" <House Church Talk  at housechurch.org>
> > Message-ID: <002a01c42a4d$47b35540$6501a8c0 at indy.rr.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> >
> > Janey???????
> > I hate the name "Janet", but Janey is simply out of the
> > question........hehehehe
> >
> > Glad to hear that David is letting the little woman speak :-)
> >
> > janet
> > www.janetmurphy.net
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: <rebelfire at juno.com>
> > To: <House Church Talk  at housechurch.org>
> > Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2004 5:35 PM
> > Subject: Re: House Church Talk -  Look who Jesus Chose
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Well Janey, David and his family met with us last Sunday and I am
pretty
> > sure Carolyn did some speaking.  :-)
> > >
> > > RJ
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -- "Janet Murphy" <dreamgirl at indy.rr.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > >Also, for David....you mentioned something about changing your
> >opinions
> > on women being silent?  Does that mean they should or >shouldn't remain
> > silent?
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________________________________________
> > > The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
> > > Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
> > > Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!
> > >
> > >
> > >     --- Info and subscription management at
> > https://housechurch.org/talk ---
> > >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 5
> > Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 00:31:31 GMT
> > From: rebelfire at juno.com
> > Subject: Re: House Church Talk -  Look who Jesus Chose
> > To: House Church Talk  at housechurch.org
> > Message-ID: <20040424.173156.22901.488638 at webmail05.lax.untd.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain
> >
> >
> > OPPS  TYPO   SORRY   Fat fingers and brain tired
> >
> >
> >
> > -- "Janet Murphy" <dreamgirl at indy.rr.com> wrote:
> > Janey???????
> > I hate the name "Janet", but Janey is simply out of the
> > question........hehehehe
> >
> > Glad to hear that David is letting the little woman speak :-)
> >
> > janet
> > www.janetmurphy.net
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: <rebelfire at juno.com>
> > To: <House Church Talk  at housechurch.org>
> > Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2004 5:35 PM
> > Subject: Re: House Church Talk -  Look who Jesus Chose
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Well Janey, David and his family met with us last Sunday and I am
pretty
> > sure Carolyn did some speaking.  :-)
> > >
> > > RJ
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -- "Janet Murphy" <dreamgirl at indy.rr.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > >Also, for David....you mentioned something about changing your
> >opinions
> > on women being silent?  Does that mean they should or >shouldn't remain
> > silent?
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________________________________________
> > > The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
> > > Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
> > > Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!
> > >
> > >
> > >     --- Info and subscription management at
> > https://housechurch.org/talk ---
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >     --- Info and subscription management at
> https://housechurch.org/talk ---
> >
> >
> > ________________________________________________________________
> > The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
> > Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
> > Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 6
> > Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 10:18:46 -0400
> > From: "Dan Beaty" <dlbeaty at copper.net>
> > Subject: Re: House Church Talk -  Look who Jesus Chose
> > To: "House Church Talk" <House Church Talk  at housechurch.org>
> > Message-ID: <001601c42ad0$3a80cbe0$a80323c7 at danbeaty>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> >
> > Glenn,
> >
> > Any room on that soap box for me?
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Glenn Frank" <glennfrank at earthlink.net>
> >
> > > Yet we see that Jesus made them in to Leaders...
> > > When they were filled with the Spirit...
> > >
> > > True, there are some people who will take on more overt roles as
leaders
> > in
> > > the church, but all believers are called to be leaders of some sort.
> That
> > is
> > > where the fallacy of the "clergy and Laity" distinction is in error.
> > > Everyone in the body should be active, not passive in their role in
the
> > > church body. Otherwise they are not fulfilling the many "one-another"
> > > commands. Distinguishing some as clergy and others as laity only
breeds
> > > incorrect assumptions about the levels of leadership and
responsibility
> in
> > > the church.
> > >
> > > (Ok... I am down off my soap box now)
> >
> > That is my main reasoning that "silent women in the assembly" seems
> > inconsistent to what God is doing today in house church, and other small
> > group settings. There are so many places in the NT where "every member,
> the
> > functioning of every part, every gift " is emphasized. This is not to
> > downplay leadership, as some have done, and even some attempt to
eliminate
> > it altogether. The real need is to release every gift, including the
> > equipping gifts, so that the whole body can be built up.
> >
> > Dan B.
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 7
> > Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 10:30:37 -0400
> > From: David Anderson <david at housechurch.org>
> > Subject: House Church Talk -  harvest is great - laborers few
> > To: "House Church Talk" <House Church Talk  at housechurch.org>
> > Message-ID: <E1BHkeX-0004l7-00 at harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> >
> >
> > RE: The harvest is great - laborers few OR the superiority of a heavenly
> > crown.
> >
> >       ------------------------
> >
> > When boxer Riddick Bowe gave up his career to join the Marines a few
> > years ago, he quit after eight days, saying he didn't want to give up
his
> > individuality. Earlier this month, Tiger Woods' commitment was half that
> > long. He made news by going through four days of military training.
> >
> > Meanwhile, of course, real soldiers served anonymously in real conflicts
> > in Iraq and Afghanistan.
> >
> > On Thursday night, former Arizona Cardinals safety Pat Tillman was
killed
> > in a firefight while on combat patrol in Afghanistan. He was 27. In May
> > 2002, he passed on a three-year, $3.6 million offer to play football,
> > instead signing for three years in the Army at $18,000 a year. He joined
> > the elite Army Rangers, who serve as commandos striking behind enemy
> > lines.
> >
> > Now he's being heralded an American hero. In a time when our athletes
are
> > pampered and individualistic, Tillman gave it all up to fight for his
> > country. What other athlete would ever have done such a thing?
> >
> > Here are a few: Bob Feller. Warren Spahn. Ted Williams. They are all
> > superstar baseball players from the past.
> >
> > http://www.suntimes.com/output/sports/cst-nws-tillman25.html
> >
> > 1 Cor. 9:24-25 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but
one
> > receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. And every man that
> > striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to
> > obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
> >
> > Matt. 19:29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or
> > sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my
> > name¹s sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting
> > life.
> >
> > So, let us draw courage from excellence, wherever it is to be found.
> >
> >       David Anderson
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > House Church Talk  mailing list
> > House Church Talk  at housechurch.org
> > https://housechurch.org/mailman/listinfo/House Church Talk 
> >
> >
> > End of House Church Talk  Digest, Vol 3, Issue 118
> > ***************************************
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 00:06:49 -0400
> From: "Dan Beaty" <dlbeaty at copper.net>
> Subject: Re: House Church Talk -  Look who Jesus Chose
> To: "House Church Talk" <House Church Talk  at housechurch.org>
> Message-ID: <000b01c42b43$e7dc6380$79ea23c7 at danbeaty>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Bruce,
>
> Using your logic, then Paul rarely addressed the females in any church, as
> he in most every case I have found, the same Greek word was used
"adelphos"
> for brethren.
>
> That would mean, that when Paul wrote, "Finally, my brethren, be strong in
> the Lord, and in the power of his might," then only the men were to be
> strong, putting on the whole armor of God, praying always with all prayer
> and supplication with all the saints. etc etc etc
>
> Maybe I am a bit naive, but I have always understood the brotherhood in
> Christ to include both men and women, for we are all sons of God through
> Jesus Christ.
>
> Of course perhaps some would argue that only the men who are led by the
> Spirit of God are the sons of God. And maybe the creation is waiting
eagerly
> for only the male children of God to be revealed?
>
> It is not that I am attempting to neutralize all gender-specific language
in
> the Scripture, or deny that there are any role distinctions involved. But
I
> have done some research into how words were used in the NT.
>
> Dan Beaty
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Bruce Woodford" <bwood4d at hotmail.com>
> To: <House Church Talk  at housechurch.org>
> Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2004 4:37 PM
> Subject: Re: House Church Talk -  Look who Jesus Chose
>
>
> > Dear Brother Dan,
> >
> > You wrote:"That is my main reasoning that "silent women in the assembly"
> > seems inconsistent to what God is doing today in house church, and other
> > small group settings. There are so many places in the NT where "every
> > member, the functioning of every part, every gift " is emphasized. This
is
> > not to downplay leadership, as some have done, and even some attempt to
> > eliminate it altogether. The real need is to release every gift,
including
> > the equipping gifts, so that the whole body can be built up."
> >
> > Brother, the silence of women in the assembly is not inly inconsistent
> with
> > what God is doing TODAY in house churches, but it has ALWAYS been
> > inconsistent with what God has done in house churches from the Day of
> > Pentecost onward!
> >
> > The silence of women is NEVER associated with house church gatherings in
> > scripture at all!  Scriptural records of gatherings of churches in
houses
> > repeatedly include the vocal participation of sisters AND the breaking
of
> > bread. I would challenge anyone to show from scripture that the silence
of
> > women in house gatherings of believers was ever practiced by the first
> > century church or is ever commanded in scripture!
> >
> > The kind of gatherings in scripture where there is NEVER any record of
> > female vocal participation and where the "not to speak" kind of silence
of
> > women is SPECIFICLY COMMANDED is in whole church gatherings in cities. I
> > would also challenge anyone who claims that women may scripturally
> > participate vocally in whole church gatherings  to demonstrate this
> position
> > from scriptural examples of whole church gatherings and also from
> scriptural
> > examples of instructions which regulate whole church gatherings!
> >
> > You are absolutely right that,"There are so many places in the NT where
> > "every member, the functioning of every part, every gift " is
emphasized."
> >
> > However, in I Cor.14 there are two expressions which have been
> misunderstood
> > and misapplied by many because they failed to observe...
> > (1)the context of the instructions (whole church gatherings in one
place)
> > and
> > (2) those to whom those commands are directed (males)!
> > Those two expressions are found in verses 26 and 31:  " when ye come
> > together  every one of you hath a psalm..."  and " ye may all prophesy
one
> > by one ..."   Many have assumed that these expressions are addressed to
> all
> > in the church, i.e. men and women.  This is just not true!  All of the
> > commands of I Cor 14 are directed to MALES!
> >
> > There are many contextual reasons why I believe this is so:
> > -From verse 6 onward, it is BRETHREN (males) who are specificly
addressed.
> > -It is the "brethren" who are commanded in verse 20.
> > -It is "brethren" who are addressed in verse 26 to whom the instruction
"
> > when ye come together  every one of you hath a psalm..."   is addressed.
> > -It is "brethren" who are informed " ye may all prophesy one by one ..."
> > in verse 31.
> > -It is "brethren" NOT sisters to whom the instructions relative to the
> > silence of women are addressed in verses 34 and  35.
> >
> > These verses say, "Let YOUR women keep silence in the churches: for it
is
> > not permitted unto THEM to speak;  but THEY are commanded to be under
> > obedience as also saith the law. And if THEY will learn anything, LET
THEM
> > ask THEIR husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the
> > church."
> >
> > If these verses were actually addressed to women as well as men as many
> have
> > assumed, they would actually read as follows: "Let YOU women keep
silence
> in
> > the churches: for it is not permitted unto YOU to speak;  but YOU are
> > commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if YOU will
> learn
> > anything, ask YOUR husbands at home: for it is a shame for YOU to speak
in
> > the church."
> >
> > I hope this helps to put these scriptural instructions into their proper
> and
> > contextual background.
> >
> > Your brother in Christ,
> > Bruce
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
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> >
>

> >
> >
> >
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>
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>
> End of House Church Talk  Digest, Vol 3, Issue 119
> ***************************************