Ah... this explains a few things. On your other note concerning gifts. I have been in the Charismatic world for a long time. It was finally after being on staff at a major ministry for a few years that my wife and I "ran away." I am a person who fully believes in the gifts of today...however, I can tell you in all honesty that the ability to fake the gifts is in full swing. As an example, I know of an assistant pastor who was very well-known in the prophetic from the 1990s to 2010. He would often stand in front of crowds and give strong prophetic words about people's lives. Very few knew he had a secretary who was paid to wander around the crowds during breaks and listen into conversations to give her boss the information he needed to prophesy. And yes, that man was also well known for his harshness to his staff (1Cor13) That is just one of many examples I know of personally.

  The real problem as I see it, is that it will be even harder for the real because so many are "gun shy" of the big-name fakers. 

  As these days grow darker and darker, spiritual gifting presented must be known by Love. Otherwise, it will mean very little.

What crazy translation is this?

This is a very helpful article. I wonder how many read this in the Evangelical Quarterly and took it to heart? How we need simple, clear, thorough, and reasonable teachings on this subject today.

Todd, Thanks for posting this. You wrote: "And this has lead to the rise of these charismatic preachers because there is no accountability to Christ coming from within the church body."

It got me thinking of accountability. There is accountability, but not always to Christ. In order to become popular, some are careful to not offend the people who support them.

Your point about "preaching" as proclaiming instead of lecturing is important. Even teaching in the scriptures often implies dialog. I realize too that there is a place for a monologue as in the preaching of Billy Graham in a stadium. However, as the original post points out, that was not the norm in New Testament times.

Many times I have heard he story of Paul preaching so long that a boy feel into a deep  sleep and fell down from the third floor. The Greek word is the one from where we get "dialog." In other places it is translated "reasoned with."

There is a book entitled, "The influence of Greek ideas on Christianity." In it the author shows how the Greeks developed the art of public speaking until it was more about entertaining or persuasion than instruction. As Christianity moved westward, it moved gradually away from the New Testament patterns. It is an interesting read.

My work as a computer programmer often has me relating seemingly disparate events into a single, cohesive "big picture" narrative. I hope that you'll forgive me for doing what now comes so naturally to me. I hope that my comments will be edifying for the entire community...

Over the last few days, I've been thinking about the recent post on TF Torrence and the rise of the popular minister in the church (https://housechurch.org/page/view-article?id=8). I couldn't agree more with that article. As I read it, it reminded me of a question that I have been meaning to follow up on. That question is this... does the word "preach" in the Bible mean what the church says it does today, which is synonymous with "lecture". After all, when Joel Osteen stands in front of 45,000 congregants each week, he effectively has a bully pulpit and can say whatever he wants. When was the last time you sat in a church and the pastor said something suspect and someone stood up in the congregation to say, "hey, wait a minute buddy, that just doesn't sound right. Here's what I think Scripture means"? I actually saw this happen once when I was quite young and the old guy in the row directly  in front of me stood up from the pew to question the pastor's teaching. But because we are trained to be "reverent" and let the guy behind the pulpit run the show, no one ever actually makes such challenges. Our culture today very much values the opinions of the "experts". This is just as much, of not more, true in the church today. And this has lead to the rise of these charismatic preachers because there is no accountability to Christ coming from within the church body

So if you've made it this far (and thanks if you have 😀 ), you must be asking yourself what this has to do with Christ teaching in the Temple. Where I see a connection is that I believe to "preach" or "proclaim" does not necessarily mean to "lecture". Sure, there is a time and place for lecturing, but I do not think that it's intended to be exclusive for communicating the Word. Indeed, I wonder if it's even meant to be an activity that takes up the majority of our efforts when it comes to the time spent teaching and preaching. Indeed, when Mary and Joseph returned to Jerusalem to find Jesus in the temple, Scripture tells us that He was "sitting among the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions." (Luke 2:46b). Imagine that... the Savior of the world and Lord of all creation sitting and asking questions of some puny humans. If anyone had reason to be a lecturer on Scripture it would have been Jesus at this time and in this place. Yet He chose to listen to and question them rather than tell them what they should believe. He taught interactively

We see the same of Paul with the men of Athens. While Paul did in fact proclaim Christ, the Bible also mentions that "[Paul] was reasoning in the synagogue with the Jews" (Acts 17:17). This does not sound much to me like a one-way conversation. Indeed, when Paul writes in the New Testament he often asks questions that I'm sure that he'd been asked before. He is aware of the objections and seeks to answer them. This is completely different teaching method than anything that we see in churches today

Thank you so much for your post, brother. You help open our eyes to the truth of Scripture perhaps far beyond what you had originally intended

Yeh, I'm not getting into the system either

"Young folks are not taught much history anymore."  LOL, very true. Several years ago I was a supervisor at a mid-level Christian publisher. Everyone on my team was at least 20 years younger than me. One day I was talking with a young woman (22 years old) who was very proud of her Cherokee heritage. So as we talked I used the example of the trail of tears to illustrate a point. This woman had no idea what I was talking about and I was kinda dumbfounded that she did not know. Later one of the guys in his late 30s explained the situation to me. "You understand because you had a "classical education!"

Very cool

 I think David’s second paragraph speaks to the center of the issue. As we are now reaping the whirlwind of centuries of self-centered religious constructs. The reformation did a good job of getting people pointed in the right direction, but Luther did little for connecting people to the Father’s heart. In reality, it only gave the people another “system” to attach to. We simply exchanged one system for another.

  Right now the bulk of the Body of Christ is still interconnected with the church system. Pastors & denominational heads will do whatever they feel justified in doing to protect their market share of believers. Yes, we are a market commodity and each week we return for our weekly religious dose of either entertainment or condemning preaching. This endless cycle produces little spiritual fruit but produces an undercurrent of unrest all around us. Not only within the body but some pastors as well as they feel “stuck” in a system that bares little resemblance to the things Jesus promised.

  How can the Body move forward in the things of God if we are interlocked in a pointless system? These are some of the hard questions I have asked myself and written about in my book, “My Fathers House.”

  Right now… the quest is to divorce from our minds the lifeless institutional forms and rediscover the Well of his Presence that He has been offering to us down through the ages.

  I know in some ways what I am saying is taking the conversation away from the topic of prepping. But in some ways, this is the center of the issue. Because, if Christ truly lives in us will we need rules to follow? I think not, for the law (rules) is for the unbelievers and served its purpose until Christ came. Now, Grace has come and we are to be governed by the Spirit within. That is one of the reasons for the biblical qualifications of Eldership. They are to be examined to see if mature biblical fruit lives in them.

  Let's take a look at James 2,

  “What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.” 14-17

  James draws out a great example here. Basically, if one of your own family is naked and starving and all you do is spiritually bless them with words and walk away, then what good is your faith? Did they not just prove by their own actions that what is within them is dead?

 And is this not what the powerless church does today? They pray for the people, but do nothing physical for them in the end.

 So, should a righteous person prep? 

 Let me ask this question, Noah was considered righteous, what kind of long-term planning and storing up did he do? Would he be considered faithless in the 21st. Century because he was not “trusting God?”

How does the system prevent the Kingdom from moving forward?

  Let me ask this question. How many of you have served for long periods of time in the church system as a leader? Day after day, year after year growing more and more tired? You're worn out and the concept of taking on just one more thing just makes your whole body freeze up in a panic. Now compare that to Jesus’ words to the woman at the well about the wellspring of life. Did leadership lose its wellspring? Or did they ever have it to begin with?

  The reality is the church is a purse full of holes and it's getting drier and drier inside for a lot of people. In Charismatic circles, biblical social responsibilities are often pushed to the side as you seek more “showy” demonstrations (healing, deliverance, ect) so that people will stay, give more and keep the system running longer.

  As a result, by our own actions, we have taken faith out of the fellowship and replaced it with a religious Idol that we call “the system.”

 What happens to Idols?

  Consider this biblical principle from Psalms 115. God through the psalmist declares, “Those who make them will be like them, and so will all who trust in them. V8” Those who make the system will become like the system they worship, and so is the danger to any who put their trust in it.

To sum up.

  Why do Christians in this age have such a problem with acting on issues that were not an issue in days past? In my view, it's because we have taken scripture and stuffed it into the box, and redefined its basic core from an institutional viewpoint. This was never meant to be. Jesus did not die for the church, he died to set his people free from sin and to proclaim the coming Kingdom. He did not die for “the form,” he died to bring life. 

  Some people see the church as “everything,” let me say something that might offend some people who think that - “that thinking is simply the evidence of how you were programmed.” You see the church is not the Kingdom. The church is a by-product of the Kingdom. 

  Jesus came to give us a relationship with the Father. This is all relationship-based, the Jewish Christians understood this, and for a time so did the ancient forms of Celtic Christianity. It is through the Son, by his blood, that he has pulled us into a family. Now we need to learn to act like a family and care for each other.

  This is why some modern people don’t understand Jesus’ words to John concerning his mother. In our modern day, she would be shipped off to old folks’ homes to “make way for the deeds of the Apostles!” But in a biblical mindset built on a foundation of a relationship, Mary had a home, she was to be carried for. And doesn’t that help fulfill John 13:35 that the world will know us by our Love?

Thanks Todd. It has been a great experience for me to be among those of differing traditions that all agree that Jesus is God incarnate. I have learned much about Him from many, and hope we can at times even discuss our differences with respect and in the desire to grow.

Hey Dan, thanks for the response. Don't worry about the length. If you write a novel then I will read it. :-)

You have made some good points here. If it's ok with you, I'd like to focus on your thoughts about the Gnostics as I believe that they are providential to this discussion. I don't know if you're familiar with Matt Whitman on YouTube, but he interviews church leaders from many expressions of the Christian faith as a way to promote unity in the church. His most recent video was on the Anglican church (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-yVCbEGWos&t=190s). I left a comment thanking Matt for his efforts, then expressed my great distress when Communion is used as a tool for segregating Christians rather than unifying them. As I was writing about how many Christian churches use made up rules to limit access to the Lord's table, the word "Gnosticism" came to mind. Perhaps it was because I had first read your comment to me here a few days before, and if so, thank you for putting that term into my memory. Regardless, I feel like church leaders who promote human-made rules for the practice of their churches are themselves Gnostics. Perhaps not in the classic sense of the Gnostics of the first century AD, but Gnostics nonetheless with their emphasis on their own private interpretations of Scripture. Please understand that I am not opposed to anyone who would attempt to interpret Scripture using the words God gas placed there before them. What I find troubling is when those interpretations drive a wedge between us. For example, I am what most people would call a Calvinist in my interpretation of God's actions in our salvation. But for as much as I hold the doctrine of election to be true, I am certainly not going to let it impact my interest or ability to break bread with others in the name of Jesus. As long as you confess that Jesus is God Incarnate (Matt 16 and 1 John 4) then you are a part of the club no matter how much I think that your theology is wrong. To do otherwise is to lack grace as found in the parable of the unforgiving servant (Matt 18).

So maybe the word "Gnostic" is not the right word to describe church leaders today, but it certainly describes is the sentiment that I find as I dig deeper into this topic. We may have fancy confessions and church rulebooks that make all of our human judgments look official, but they do not rise to the level of Scripture and must therefore be revised or abandoned when their doctrine goes against the teachings of the Bible.

Thanks David. I'm not sure that I'm any more enlightened than anyone else in discussing this matter, but I do place a great emphasis on this particular subject as I'm struggling to find any institutional church where its leaders know the basic principles of the Christ faith. They may espouse many "truths", many of which are built on cultural understanding of Scripture and not based on deep study of the Word itself. I have been guilty of this myself, which is why I'm digging much deeper into the subject.

I very much appreciated your comment about "Papal Bull". :-)  You are spot-on with that comment. I have always wondered how some Christians who rely on Apostolic Succession for their authority can also claim the cloak of infallibility for their pronouncements when Peter is such a mess sometimes. He was so bad in one instance (Gal 2) that Paul had to severely reprimand him.

I appreciate you pointing put that Peter calls himself a "a fellow elder and a witness of the sufferings of Christ" in 1 Peter 5:1. That's good stuff.

Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever. 1 tim 5:8

  The reality is the man in the video is correct. But he needs to go further and put an axe to the root of the problem. The church is not the Kingdom, the church is a perverted by-product of the Kingdom. Jesus never came to bring the church, he came to assemble a family to live in the Kingdom.

  This is why I do not say I attend a church, I am a part of a fellowship. The “form/artificial life” will never give birth to life. Only true life can give birth to life. 

https://breadstonepublishing.com/product/my-fathers-house/

I have been helping my sister's family move across country. I've had no time for the internet lately. Thank you Todd and Dan for the good words. I don't know how I missed the imputation doctrine. It was not emphasized or else it went over my head.

Growing up, we used to sing a hymn called Christ the Solid Rock. It mentioned being "clothed in his righteousness alone. Faultless to stand before the throne." Until recently, I never understood the meaning but now I do. Having all my sins taken away today is not enough. Because I will surely sin again tomorrow. His righteousness is the answer. Praise his name!