God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3
Todd warned us several weeks ago about this remarkable trend. Who would have thought that people in the church would have stooped so low as to impersonate others in ways which completely misrepresent them? Please be careful!
By the way, anyone getting tired about hearing about artificial intelligence? As if it were some kind of diety or religion.
The first thing which occured to me was the task of getting the scriptures into the languages of the unreached. Judging from the AI translations I have seen so far, we are nowhere close.
David, This statement from the early Harvard documents is a fine reminder of what life is all about. Today I began reading from the book you sent me, "The House Church," by Del Birkey. There are some great insights so far.
Since 1995 we have not abandoned the concepts of House Church even though we felt God has helped us to see we are not in competition to other churches. It is our love for one another in Christ that should be the distinguishing factor, even when we disagree.
One point I appreciate in this book is that of Paul's concept of the church as a family and also the Body of Christ. The fact is that the human body is an amazing living thing. When properly nourished and protected it will regenerate itself and reproduce as well.
While we know that we are at war with outside forces trying every day to destroy us, there can also be those things within the community that hinders our growth.
Sadly we have developed many good things that can easily hinder true spiritual growth in the church today. May we be faithful to discard them when He makes them known to us.
Harvard University is back in the news. But for the wrong reasons. People and politicians are wanting to know why they continually sanction anti-semitism. The answer to that question has to do with the source of money. Perhaps, you were wondering about it. As was I.
Harvard did have a noble beginning. When founded in 1636, its mission statement included these words: “To be plainly instructed and consider well that the main end of your life and studies is to know Jesus Christ.”
Harvard employed exclusively Bible-believing Christians for professors and course work emphasized character formation. Christian love - not hate toward other ethnicities. Every diploma had printed on them the Latin words meaning, “Truth for Christ and the Church.”
Knowing Jesus Christ and doing his will should be in the mission statement of every church, whether the statement is spoken or written. If this theme is lost, all the details amount to nothing. Just as Harvard underwent a massive mission drift - this is also possible in churches of any size. And in online platforms as well.
Please consider.
Seems like the state of Ohio produces more than its fair share of great musicians. Perhaps the long cold winters yield long practice sessions as they sit around the fire, waiting for spring.
This is a recent concert photo of Rick Derringer, who passed into eternity a few days ago. If you will look at his strumming hand, at his fingertips is an unusual design. It's meant to honor our Lord, who truly is the first and last. And only, I might add. Do you see the Greek letters?
Why would I post this photo? Because, I admire anyone who attempts to honor God in what they do... in the real world. Not just "in church". And I am reminded of God's intention for elders (Christian seniors) to lead the churches and to care for the younger ones in particular. A simple and natural arrangement.
When Rick was 9 years old his caring father took him over to the Gibson guitar factory in Kalamazoo. Upon walking in, he was met with two guitars in a glass case... These super rare guitars were called the "Guitars of the Future". An Exporer model and a Flying V. As fate would have it, years later Rick would own one them himself. Purchased for $1500. Later sold for $15,000. Then sold to the next owner for $150,000.
But that's not the point. The point is that every child is precious in God's sight and is a prodigy at something if given a chance and given the encouragement to succeed. Brother, uncle, father, neighbor, friend - are you thoughtfully engaged in this joyful mentoring task? Or will you leave it to others?
Trust me, there are not enough interested "clergy" or "counsellors" or "therapists" to cover it. Furthermore, these are all paid agents - which greatly dilutes their best efforts.
Even Jesus himself is not going to step in and do it. Instead he warns us that if we are stumbling blocks to the little ones who believe in Him, we would be better off dead. So, this is a big deal.
To see Rick swapping licks with another Christian brother playing a saxophone, go here. At the 4 minute mark. You might recognize the band's drummer. Or Rick playing, more than 50 years ago, high intensity music which might remind you of those Old Testament passages where the saints "played their instruments with all their might" or "danced with all their might." :)
This is fantastic!
I had lunch last week with an elder from the last institutional church that I was a part of when I left the system three years ago. For him, nothing has changed. He considers me to be in rebellion to Christ's calling to be a church member and be in subjection to its leadership, even though no such calling exists. On the contrary, we are called as Christians to be unified in the Spirit yet church leaders often see their role as to keep the purity of their theology (which they call "faith") and they continually divide the church over inconsequential issues.
The saddest part of my lunch with my friend is that he doesn't know his Scripture, nor does he have any real interest in it. When I told him that he puts more faith in his creeds, catechisms, and confessions than he does in the Bible then he pushed back on me. His gave me his best "building on the shoulder of giants" speech and said that he didn't want to "re-litigate" his interpretation of Scripture each time an issue came up. Re-litigate? Really?!?! How sad that an elder in the church can't be bothered to discuss the Bible with us "mere mortals" (aka laity).
It took me a couple of years to get over my need to trust human institutions for guidance on God's will and instead rely on the Holy Spirit. A friend of mine recently said that if you've been broken by God to the point where you hate and weep over your own sins then you truly have the working of the Holy Spirit within you. Yet the institution requires that you tick off a bunch of checkboxes in order to be saved. The spirit of the Pharisees is alive and well in the modern-day church.
When I look at the current state of Christendom, I can draw parallels to the Israelites before they entered the Promised Land. Weary and hungry, they would come to Moses complaining about their lack of food and would say that they wanted to return to Egypt. They were willing to enslave themselves yet again for a few morsels of food rather than wait to possess the "land flowing with milk and honey". The modern-day church is a tyrannical system which enslaves those who are a part of it to follow only the leading of those who run it. Instead, Christ is calling us to a life of love and service that is buried deep within today's churches. It is only by God's grace and mercy that His message of salvation in Christ shines through all of the nonsense that is we experience when we go to "church". My prayer is that God continues to call His people out of the system and into real fellowship free of all of the rules, just as He did with me. And I believe that the "seniors" are an important part of that transition. The idea of ordination or the clergy/laity distinction needs to disappear.
So now would you like to know what I really think? :-)
He's been called The Father of the English Bible. But greedy, self-serving, religious leaders - so called Christians - had him strangled and then they burned his body.
In this excerpt, he is answering a famous Roman Catholic scholar, Sir Thomas More, who challenged him for not translating the word elder as priest. Tyndale translated it as senior. Senior was dropped in the later versions of his English translation in favor of the word elder... thus opening a world of confusion to this day.
We keep bringing up this subject because it has become a stumbling block for those seeking to be a part of a simple non-traditional church.
Not to mention the sad fact that multitudes of Christians seniors are sitting around idle, bored, and lonely. Feeling they have no purpose on this earth when in reality they have a very high, God-ordained calling to be deliberately engaged in every day.
Thankfully, there are indeed seniors who have figured out the plan via spiritual instinct, I suppose, but... the vast majority are not engaged. More than willing to pass their obligations onto the professional clergy or anyone else believed to be qualified.
Here is a trustworthy saying: If anyone sets his heart on being an overseer, he desires a noble task. 1 Timothy 3.
Hundreds - now thousands of years have past since the Son of God walked the earth. We still do not comprehend the most basic things: Older ChristianS, as opposed to "the pastor", are appointed to lead the churches. To love, care for, teach, pastor, shepherd and minister to the younger ones in God's household.
None of these responsibilities are of a technical nature, by the way.
Yes, you are your brother's keeper.
To the elders among you, I appeal as a fellow elder and a witness of Christ’s sufferings who also will share in the glory to be revealed: Be shepherds of God’s flock that is under your care, watching over them—not because you must, but because you are willing, as God wants you to be; not pursuing dishonest gain, but eager to serve; not lording it over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock. And when the Chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the crown of glory that will never fade away.
In the same way, you who are younger, submit yourselves to your elders. All of you, clothe yourselves with humility toward one another... 1 Peter 5.
Hello again, brother Todd. So good to hear from you.
Thank you for this keen "video" analysis, warnings, and personal testimony.
Apparently you like to figure things out and find answers to your questions. Good. Me too.
I was suspicious of this video myself but noticed several other "MacArthur" videos with similar titles... so I figured it was legit. I did observe that several parts of it sounded repetitious. (The part about there having always been good Christians outside the traditional churches.)
I am going to look into this further when I return home.
Usually, the AI readings reveal their true nature by the mispronunciation of common words.
My goodness, everything is being faked. Are people that eager to make a few dollars off youtube?
Poor John MacArthur is fighting for his life some were saying a few weeks ago. That report could also have been exaggerated, no doubt.
Yes, the site message service here is need of repair. We just changed servers. And need further adjustments.
Thank you for caring, my dear brother.
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So I found a very similar video that purports to be from Paul Washer at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7A0aztblQ28. I'm no expert on Washer (or a fan either), but this seems out of character for him. The few messages of his that I have heard have been rich in Lordship Salvation - a doctrine that seems to say that you can't have faith without seeing a change in your life. While I agree with the underlying premise that genuine faith brings about change, the Lordship Salvation crowd like MacArthur and Washer and Piper all stress works over grace. They set their fellow believers up for failure by encouraging them to measure their output rather than their relationship with the Almighty. There is little to be found in their messages that points to the cross as the finished work of Christ. What is found in these videos seems out of character for these two men
While I can't guarantee that these videos are fake, I smell a rat. In the video link that I just posted, "Washer" mispronounces the word "product" at the 20:50 mark in the video. I also noticed in both videos that Scripture is cited with a leading "0" on the verse number, such as at 1:05 when "Washer" cites "2 Timothy 3:05" or at 5:20 when "MacArthur" cites "2 Timothy 4:03-4". It's these little clues that make me think that these videos are faked
As to why someone would go through the effort to fake these videos, I am not certain. Perhaps it is a well-meaning Christian who wants to use the voice of a popular teacher to drive home the truth. Or it could be someone trying to get people to leave the church in the hopes that they will fall away from Christ. Regardless of the motive, it's hard to believe that any of these pastors would support the idea that it's ok for people to leave the church system that they have spent their entire lives building and becoming famous in
Regardless of possible fakery, this serves as a good lesson to compare what you hear and see with Scripture. The OP asks, "People leave - but what then, pray tell?" For people like me who have left the system yet not connected with a house church, the answer is to find like-minded believers wherever you can and fellowship however you can. Let the Holy Spirit be your guide. As a friend of mine said recently, if you've ever wept over your sins then you don't need anyone to tell you how you must connect with God. I find daily fellowship and encouragement online. While this may not be exactly what the NT describes, we know that the Apostle Paul tells us that our "gatherings" are for the purpose of mutual edification, and that Paul himself wrote letters to the churches that edified the people of his day and in the 2,000 years since. I have privilege of meeting pretty much daily with my fellow believers for the purpose of fellowship, encouragement, teaching, accountability, and confession. I never felt like this when I was part of the system
Hey guys, I seem to be having the same problem as before with direct messages not working. Would someone look into this please?
I watched this very video just before you posted it and it was unclear to me if this was really MacArthur speaking or an AI fake. There was no video but rather just a picture. The words mostly made sense to me, which is why I questioned their authenticity. :-)
Remember the Coneheads from Saturday Night Live? :-)
I couldn't agree more that Popery lives on in the Protestant church. When I was struggling to be heard by the leadership of the last institutional church that I attended, I would ask a simple question, "where is what you are telling me can be found in Scripture?" The answer was often (in my own words) "you don't need to worry about that because we are the clergy" or "you have vowed to obey us so do what we say" or some other such nonsense. It is completely unBiblical, but they don't really care. As soon as you push back then you become "dangerous" to their power structures and money and control. I can see why so many saints were martyred by the church that Jesus created to serve them
My advice to anyone reading my words is simply this... any time a church leader asserts "authority" over you, flee their presence immediately. While the role of an elder is certainly Biblical, any elder that claims to "rule" is not. Their role is that of an undershepherd. They are there to gently guide the sheep toward the Chief Shepherd and help protect them from danger, not to determine their own path. And what little Bible knowledge that they have is limited to verses like Hebrews 13:17 which tells us (in English) to "obey". Yet in the context of that verse and in reading the Greek, it seems more plausible that we are to be "convinced by" them. We bow the knee not to the elders (mini-Popes), but to Christ Himself. "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me" - John 10:27
Truly, not all white hat people are worthy of your trust. But neither condemn them too quickly. Protestant churches are also filled with Popery.
By Popery, I am referring to priestcraft. By priestcraft, I am referring to any person coming between man and God. An example - and there are many - would be a church not celebrating the Lord's Supper unless an ordained clergy-person were there to "assist and administer."
And this all Christians ought to know, that the title of clergy St. Peter gave to all God's people, till Pope Higinus and the succeeding prelates took it from them, appropriating that name to themselves and their priests only; and condemning the rest of God's inheritance to an injurious and alienate condition of laity, they separated from them by local partitions in churches, through their gross ignorance and pride imitating the old temple, and excluded the members of Christ...
From John Milton's The Reason of Church Government, 1642. An English poet and scholar who is best known for the epic poem Paradise Lost (1667).
Once the focus of huge growth and intense persecution, the CCP has now turned their attention to another spiritual movement. Falun Gong. They gave grown rapidly in numbers and influence. They even have an impressive dance group and control the 4th largest news organization in the USA. From a copy of the Epoch Times we read today:
Twenty-six years ago, on April 25, 1999, more than 10,000 peaceful Falun Gong practitioners gathered outside the State Council’s appeals office at the Zhongnanhai compound in Beijing to appeal for their right to practice Falun Gong in China. Not since students assembled in Tiananmen Square in June 1989 had so many Chinese citizens gathered in public to appeal to the authorities.
Falun Gong, also known as Falun Dafa, is a spiritual practice in the Buddhist tradition based on the universal principles of truthfulness, compassion, forbearance (zhen, shan, ren, in Chinese). It was brought to the public by Mr. Li Hongzhi in May 1992 and quickly became the most popular qigong in China. By 1998, the State Sports Commission found that more than 70 million people were practicing Falun Gong.
Meditation and health are/were core components of Christianity. In fact, the biblical word for salvation has the broader meaning of good health.
I guess Falun Gong did a better job of marketing...
Fascinating message for your consideration. Brother John explained the problem in great detail... but what is the solution?
People leave - but what then, pray tell?
GOAT as in greatest of all time. He officially and ceremoniously retired a while back. He's now toured the world anonymously, behind dark glasses and large hats. Bonded with his family, too.
But alas, he realizes he has a higher calling than retirement. So... it's back to the tennis court to do battle. And shake off boredom. See the above video caption.
Let me tie this into the world of alternative churches. In the scriptures, leadership roles are for life. Only under the rarest of circumstances do leaders "step down". And they never retire. For the vast majority of church leaders today, they should have never "stepped up" in the first place.
If a leader falls into a gross and public sin, and if he is repentant, he needs to hold his ground and be lifted back up. And with tears in his eyes, he can faithfully warn others of the deceitfulness of sin.
Yes, he or she can be restored. And yes they can and should continue to serve until "death do them part."
No one would say to a spouse who had gambled the retirement money away: "You must now be divorced, your family desolved." Nor would they say to a driver who ran a stop sign and caused an accident: "You can never drive again."
Instead, we pick up the pieces by the grace of God - wiser and more humble and determined to follow the Lamb closer than before. Following in his strength alone.
Satan's tactics have not changed over thousands of years. He still plots to keep people from their servant responsibilities toward their fellow Christian brothers and sisters. And fellow human beings, too.
"What? Who, me? Am I my brother's keeper?" Genesis 4:9.
Yes, consider the name of the book. The Acts. Although the title is uninspired, it is faithful to the contents of the recorded history.
These saints were on the move. The were Nike people looking to: Just do it. Not looking for a tower or a sacred place to meditate in. Publicly appearing before and even opposing civil leaders, where necessary. Going everywhere, boldly preaching the joyful tidings!
Not hiding or aimless hanging out. Not circling the wagons to wait out the rapture. But claiming everything in and for the name of Jesus, the resurrected God-man.
"Look, here are the people who are turning the world upside down..."
Most words can be fluid in their usage, no doubt. A child may say: Dad, why are you always preaching at me about staying out late?
We allow for and we enjoy such usage, of course. Jesus himself frequently used hyperbole and exaggeration.
Biblically speaking though, there is no justification for applying the word preaching to the verbal activity among the gathered saints. Much less, for using it in reference to a "sermon."
The word preach is generally misunderstood. The implications are sad and they are far reaching. Harmful even, I must add. And that is an understatement.
I submit: This is not a mere semantic curiosity.
Several fine books have touched upon this troublesome subject but I don't see where this extensive material by George Campbell was referenced. It's from his commentaries on the Gospels.
In his day the author had great respect. He even wrote a notable book on church history as well as headed a major university in Scotland. Thus, his portrait above from the National Gallery.
Obviously, he took great pride in his appearance. :)
Joyful family meetings with children of all sizes. Not a problem...
Our Lord - did he not entreat us to enter into his Kingdom as a child?
This caring couple is devoted to restoring marriages as well. Their ministry is called: Marriage after God.
Anyone who reads this informative review should receive college credit. A lot of it. :)
The title of the book is worth the price, no doubt. Truer words were never spoken than these: Jesus changes everything. Or as the writer of the book of Revelation states it: Behold, I make all things new!
I see from the internet book archives that this author was indeed a "prodigious writer." Much going back before the era of modern word processor and keyboard. How did he find the time to record all those words?
Jesus preached and taught the Kingdom of God. And to love one another. To serve others. And that He was to have the preeminence in all spheres. These were not mere slogans but Jesus himself walked the earth to demonstrate this new way of life.
We personally have not lived up to these standards. Nor has the church.
It would be quite interesting if Stanley Hauerwas had lived to see and to analyze the present state of cultural affairs. Many of which have taken us by surprise, to say the least.
Thank you Tim Price for this valuable review. I must add that you also are a pretty keen writer. And like Stanley, you are seeking to encourage others to follow in the steps of the Son of God, wherever those steps will take us.
I haven't read Hauerwas since the early 2000s. My last awareness of his work was Resident Aliens, which he wrote with William Willimon. I found Hauerwas' mindset in that book to be encouraging, prophetic, and a clarion call to change our ways. When asked to review Hauerwas' newest book, Jesus Changes Everything, I thought, "Wow, I wonder what he might have to say now."
For those unfamiliar with Hauerwas, he is not an Anabaptist in the birthright sense. Hauerwas is an American Protestant theologian, ethicist, and public intellectual.1 He taught at the University of Notre Dame. Eventually, he moved to Duke University. Born in 1940 in Texas to a bricklayer, his formative life wasn't a cakewalk. He was educated at Southwestern University, Yale, and the University of Edinburgh. Among his influences are Aristotle, Søren Kierkegaard, John Howard Yoder, and Michel Foucault. Hauerwas is a prodigious writer.
So why should Anabaptists be interested in Hauerwas? First, I think he gets two kingdoms in ways birthright Anabaptists have either forgotten or they’ve not plumbed the depths of for themselves. People born in the stream of Anabaptism hear "two-kingdoms" spoken of like an old-fashioned Pentecostal is conditioned to hearing and accepting thunderous "praise the lord" or "amen" every time a point is made at church. These touch points in some cases are "buzzwords" to which we’ve given little thought. However, for researchers like Hauerwas and myself, "two kingdoms" is like the pearl of great price, mentioned in Matthew 13:45-46. We both found this terminology later in our lives and sold all the former understandings to embrace this point that divides belief in a belief from a lived reality. Secondly, Hauerwas spent time with one of the most preeminent thinkers of the 20th century. Even though John Howard Yoder was later disgraced, the Anabaptist point of view was communicated. Hauerwas has been among the Bruderhof, though I am unsure of the exact depth of involvement.
I am not a light reader! When I read a book, oftentimes, it isn't worth passing on to others. I mark it up, bend page corners, and finally copy significant details into a database to use later. Thus, it takes me a bit.
I liked this book first because of what it said, which we will get to in a minute. Its trim size is a nifty 5 x 7 inches. It doesn't look commanding, like a tome from Dostoevsky or Dallas Willard. People will like this volume because it is approachable. Hauerwas' is straightforward as if he were talking to a high school student. Thus, Hauerwas' delivery is axiomatic. The content is like a lush pasture in the Spring. One feels enveloped by the writer, not smothered by intellect or pushiness. Chapters are crisp, rarely beyond 3-5 pages.
Hauerwas starts talking about the kingdom of God almost without any more introduction than we would get if we read scripture directly. But then he weaves modern stories into the fray as if to say somebody else understood the import. The kingdom of God is about "following Jesus" with a reckless abandon that shows itself in contrast to the ways of men. In the first chapter, he relates the story of Koinonia Farms, an interracial experiment in Georgia of the 1950s. A pair of brothers, Clarence and Robert Jordan, became divided over applying the New Testament teaching in real life over just observing and appreciating it as nice sounding.
How many people do we know who appreciate the Bible or even the New Testament but can't find the fortitude to apply it in real life? I suppose we could label such as hypocrisy. But it illustrates many we know—even within Anabaptism—who only give lip service to the truth. Hauerwas is laying an axe to that specific tree, which is a reality that is accepted and allowed in many places today.
Hauerwas maintains a full-court press against the idealism of religious passivity—which deals in platitudes and smiles—while denying entry into the fracas of life as Jesus' disciple. If you follow Jesus, you won't get a crook on your nose by looking out the screen door. But you will get nicked up by stepping out from behind the safety of that screen door into the free-for-all of the world. It is only in the fracas of the world that contrast will ever take shape as the fruit of God's Spirit is illustrated. It is borne out in our lives and interactions with the unregenerate world. Hauerwas borrows Bonhoeffer, who said it (faith) is a matter of being "dragged out of our relative security into a life of absolute insecurity—that is, in truth, into the absolute security and safety of the fellowship of Jesus."2
Hauerwas encourages us to come out from the safety of "church" (a little safety nest we've created for ourselves), conflating it with what we see as Ekklesia in the New Testament. Jesus—and Stanley Hauerwas—are asking us to wade out into the ocean of what Jesus wants to do where our security is Jesus himself. We've made a panacea of "church" experience, whereas Jesus wants us to be His contrast to a world bent on evil and going down the tubes. This can't be done by navel-gazing in pews in the fortress of timber, shingles, brick, and mortar.
Hauerwas exposes our anemic view of love. "If Christ was but a preacher of love, one wonders how he could have ever ended on a cross – for who is going to object to that kind of preaching? He is nailed to the cross because his love is the revelation of God's righteousness, which brings pain and change and calls us to extend the have to those we cannot seem to love."3 Wow! What an exposé of churchianity today, even within the better end of it in conservative Anabaptism? We prefer our fences, mutual admiration, and folks who look like us to wading out into the world to love those who may be unlovable, but certainly, folks we wouldn't usually choose to love.
Again, Hauerwas is cutting off the limb we commonly hang out upon. Contrast means that there is a difference, it can be detected, and that the difference is present to that which it contrasts. This is the problem for most forms of Christianity, which hole up in buildings whose constituents never seem to differentiate themselves from the world other than in exteriors and talk. Hauerwas points to this issue. Much radicalness in our circles stops at "what we don't do." We've conflated radicalness with we don't dress like the world, do "entertainment," or drink, with thinking we’ve upheld the radicalness of Jesus and our forefathers, who both paid a heavy price for being quite different than we’ve become.
Throughout the book, Hauerwas presses the idea of an "alternative social ethic"—the kingdom of God. As Anabaptists, we believe the kingdom of God is a now reality (as well as a greater eventuality). However, Hauerwas challenges even Anabaptist with the living of it. "What kind of order was Jesus talking about? What kind of social alternative? This was a voluntary society: you could not be a citizen of it simply by being born into it… This was a society with no second-generation members.4 This is a tough word for most conservative of modern Anabaptists who commonly lean on adding to the faith is just raising a family in the church community.
Hauerwas shares in relation to this theme, "To be a disciple of Jesus is to be grafted into a new family that Christ has constituted."5
But how many "new disciples" come into our circles this way?
Hauerwas continues, "The kingdom of God grows by witness and conversion."6 Sections like this will prove to be an admonition to those in Anabaptist circles who have relegated "witness" to the way we live, think everyone sinful will admire and come running. Yet when we read Matt. 28:19-20, which is never quoted in this volume, it says, "go" make disciples, which is an intentionality we need to square with.
Most original Anabaptists were quite evangelistic. They preached, traveled, and witnessed wherever they went about Jesus' love and the need to repent and enter into a kingdom of discipleship. This trait has been lost, and while Hauerwas doesn't harp on it, his hints cannot be missed.
As a continuation of his "alternative social ethic," he makes this statement, "The way for the world to know that it needs redeeming, that is, it's broken and fallen, is for the church to enable the world to strike hard against something that is an alternative to what the world offers."7
I dearly appreciate this point. My former tradition would stone someone saying such because they want an easy pass through the world to kick the bucket and go to be with Jesus, where it's all good for them. For Anabaptists, however, most tend to staying away from the world. A friend of mine—coming into conservative Anabaptist circles went to a well-known conference. During the presentation, a widely known Anabaptist figure exclaimed, "Anabaptist suffered tremendous persecution, and we're not going back." This is a reoccurring attitude—stay out of the fracas, but be upstanding moral—but remain aloof.
Hauerwas is laying an axe to both notions. To be understood as God's kingdom is not only to be differentiated—which Anabaptists have a fair understanding of—but also to be available to the world as a constant reminder of what it is not. We can't hole up in the country and our religious structures and be Good Samaritans only when we can't escape it.
Concluding Thoughts:Hauerwas' book will be salty—even for those who have embraced conservative Anabaptism. It will be like walking on glass for nominal church people. Hauerwas is like the kindly old grandpa who says what we might not like to hear. One of the things I appreciate most about this book is that Hauerwas didn't fall into the typical ditches of the false dichotomy of politically liberal or conservative coloring of truth. The old Amish proverb says that there are two miles of ditches for every one mile of road. Many renditions of the "kingdom of God" in Anabaptist circles often fall into the social gospel (social justice, cultural equity, trying to make the world a better place…). Hauerwas stays clear of the ditches of this left vss. right trap to present an alternative that the world will not try to replicate and often will persecute because it can't stand being reflected in contrast. Hauerwas draws this point into sharp focus—an admonition for us in the degenerating days in which we live to yet still be "in" the world in order to contrast to it.
1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley...
2. Stanley Hauerwas, Jesus Changes Everything, ISBN 978-1-630608-157-1, pg. 8
3. Ibid, pg. 19
4. Ibid, pg. 41
5. Ibid, pg. 63
6. Ibid, pg. 63
7. Ibid, pg. 115
Notable Quotes:
Jesus calls us to join a community that is formed by a story that enables its member to trust the otherness of the other as the very sign of the forgiving character of God's kingdom.
Stanley Hauerwas, Jesus Changes Everything, pg. 17
If Christ was but a preacher of love, one wonders how he could have ever ended on a cross – for who is going to object to that kind of preaching? He is nailed to the cross because his love is the revelation of God's righteousness, which brings pain and change and calls us to extend the have to those we cannot seem to love.
Stanley Hauerwas, Jesus Changes Everything, pg. 19
What kind of order was Jesus talking about? What kind of social alternative? This was a voluntary society: you could not be a citizen of it simply by being born into it… This was a society with no second-generation members
Stanley Hauerwas, Jesus Changes Everything, pg. 41
He (Jesus) gave them a new way to deal with problems of leadership - by drawing on the gift of every member.
Stanley Hauerwas, Jesus Changes Everything, pg. 41
Charity is not about removing all injustice in the world, but about meeting the need of our neighbors right where we find them. And Christ shows us who our neighbors are. He expects us to bind up the wounds of those right before us.
Stanley Hauerwas, Jesus Changes Everything, pg. 57
Christians do, and are obligated to, have a concern about the societies in which they exist, but our task is not to make (force) the world apart form Christ in the kingdom of love. Our task is to be a community where charity takes the from of truth. We must first be a people that is shaped by the story that sustains charity in a world where it cannot be sustained.
Stanley Hauerwas, Jesus Changes Everything, pg. 58
Thought we must, in the interest of charity, ask the state to live up to its own standards of just, we must never delude ourselves into thinking that the justice of the state is what is required of us as people formed by God's kingdom.
Stanley Hauerwas, Jesus Changes Everything, pg. 58
This is why the church is to be a community of charity. "See how they love one another," the pagans said of the Christians.
Stanley Hauerwas, Jesus Changes Everything, pg. 58
To be a disciple of Jesus is to be grafted into a new family that Christ has constituted. Stanley Hauerwas Jesus Changes Everything, pg. 59
Rather, the kingdom of God grows by witness and conversion. Through such growth Christians will discover sisters and brothers we did not know we had.
Stanley Hauerwas, Jesus Changes Everything, pg. 59
Today's church simply is not a soil capable of growing deep roots.
Stanley Hauerwas, Jesus Changes Everything, pg. 79
The way for the world to know that it needs redeeming, that is its broken and fallen, is for the church to enable the world to strike hard against something that is an alternative to what the world offers. Stanley Hauerwas, Jesus Changes Everything, pg. 115
…the church and Christians must be uninvolved in the politics of society and involved in the polity that is the church. Stanley Hauerwas Jesus Changes Everything, pg. 117
Just remember that church eldership and leadership were moving targets in the early years. Brotherhood slowly gave way to higher and lower class of Christians - the clergy and laity.
At first, Christian elders or seniors were bishops or overseers. Later some became "the bishop".
OK, on this subject of catacombs and death, don't forget what became of the betrayal money given to Judas. It was eventually redeemed and used to purchase land for burial grounds.
And?
This shows that material things have their proper place and that the early church did indeed buy property, though on rare occasions and not comparable to the modern church mortgage.
The great issue is what you are doing wherever you are - not where you are. With respect to honoring God. He doesn't dwell in man-made temples and through faith He is in reach of all who call upon his name.
As an amateur historian, I realized that church history could be long and tedious for many. In 2011 I compiled as much as I could condense and keep interesting as possible into this book. Printed copies can be purchased on Amazon, but I thought some on this site might be willing to use the PDF to be downloaded freely here.
An endless maze of underground tunnels where early Christians buried their dead, hid, and gathered for worship. These passageways go for miles and are filled with ancient art and inscriptions. This one is under the City of Rome. Almost forgotten for a thousand years.
If you like hanging out with the dead, this is your kind of place.
Enterprising souls soon found a lucrative market for the "bones of the martyrs". Proof that human nature has not changed.
The subterranean inscriptions - do they teach us anything about church leadership? Yes, they do. I will bring these forward very soon
Hi David. Your timing on this post, as usual, is most excellent. Just a few hours before you posted this, I posted my thoughts on a related CS Lewis YouTube video to a small group of my Christian friends. We consider ourselves misfits because none of us fits well into the traditional Christian mold, although some still do attend an institutional church. Anyway, the video that I watched was titled "The BRUTAL Truth About Why You Never Fit In - And Why It Will NEVER will". It's taken me far too long to learn the lessons from this video, but the video itself is not responsible for my transition out of the institutional church. Instead, it affirms my choice, as have so many other signs from God. As I seek answers to where God would have me be, I look to Scripture to keep me on the narrow path.
Rather than rewrite my thoughts for this group here, I am posting my thoughts to my small group verbatim. As always, feedback is welcome...
Hey there fellow saints, I think that this video from CS Lewis (link below) is something that we can all relate to in some way. It's about the difference between fitting in and belonging. I have seldom ever fit in, and even in those times where I have felt like part of a tribe then I've still been somewhat of an outsider, never quite walking in step with those around me. I've come to a place in my life where I avoid gatherings outside of my immediate family, mostly because the conversation seems shallow and awkward. Seldom do my Christian friends want to talk about things that are meaningful and eternal. If you mention Christ, you might get a knowing head nod and an acknowledgment that Jesus is Lord of all Creation, but little more
Our group here represents the first time that I've ever felt like I really belonged somewhere. I love that we truly see ourselves bound together as members of Christ's Body. For myself, I feel free from the requirements imposed by being a member of a specific church or denomination. You have all accepted me as I am. I have found my home here. For that I am eternally grateful
I like the part later in the video where CS Lewis says that God didn't save us so that we could fit in but rather so that He could bring us out and set us apart from worldly standards and expectations. I think that the video makes an important point that this doesn't mean that we should live as hermits, but rather that we need to be aligned with God's will regardless of the circumstances
So here is the video for your edification - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vF3tV21YsWs
From his autobiography, Surprised by Joy:
The idea of churchmanship was to be wholly unattractive. I was not in the least anticlerical but I was deeply antiecclesiastical.
…But though I liked clergymen as I liked bears, I had as little wish to be in the Church as in the zoo.
It was, to begin with, a kind of collective; a wearisome “get-together” affair. I couldn’t yet see how a concern of that sort should have anything to do with one’s spiritual life. To me, religion ought to have been a matter of good men praying alone and meeting by twos and threes to talk of spiritual matters.
And then the fussy, time-wasting botheration of it all! The bells, the crowds, the umbrellas, the notices, the bustle, the perpetual arranging and organizing. Hymns were (and are) extremely disagreeable to me. Of all musical instruments I liked (and like) the organ least. I have, too, a sort of spiritual gaucherie which makes me unapt to participate in any rite.
Very interesting and informative. It would be good if someone could compile these facts in a form more compatible to today's readers.
This extract is from a real church history book written by a real scholar with a real D.D. As you have noticed, in today's world, unearned doctorates are given out like candy bars to unlearned clergy.
This tiny pdf file (330k) - these few pages could have a great effect and actually free up 10's of billions of dollars each year if put into practice. I pray that it will happen. These words are merely echoing the teachings of scripture regarding needs-based financial assistance for those in the Christian communities.
Not just the money is what is in view. Many so-called laymen must be called up for duty. A duty which they will come to love, I know.
Never forget that when one person is elevated above others - the influence of others is lessened. Therefore Jesus urged us not to call any man master. And not to be as heathen who order their affairs by rank. "You are brothers."
We are not blaming any individual today. Let God be the judge. It is the traditional system itself which must be adjusted. Or overhauled in a major way.
If you are in a hurry, just scan the the high-lighted text in the above document.
Can you or someone you know refute the thesis of this interesting book? I think not. But if so, please be our guest.
We're are not here to discuss partisan politics. Important though it is - it is not our focus. Try to put that aside and examine this clergy person's words as she scolds a world leader who was recently visiting her church.
By the way, in a biblical meeting format no-one gets to pelt another with words. Everyone had a right to speak. To reply, to question, or to say Amen. See 1 Corinthians 14.
This Bishop is very subtly seeking to justify a slave-class who will do the dirty work for others. For others who are presumed unable or unwilling to do it for themselves.
Yes, the church is called upon to be a relief agency. Individual Christians also will eventually be asked: "What did you do for the least of these?" This will involve time and money. It will also take courageous Christian pastor/teachers who echo the apostle's doctrine and declare: If any man will not work - neither should he eat. Likewise, those not providing for their own families (ands widows) - they have actually left the faith.
By the way, I would like to hear a "Christian Nationalist" admit that the Nanny State is largely due to the monumental failure of the Christian church, particularly in its use of money. I hope this admission comes soon.
The true church must immediately divest itself of all profit-making schemes involving the Story. Be it for "preaching" or charging for christian music or books. These latter items can easily be distributed for free. So why put them behind a paywall and limit the audience? The plain answer is greed. Those outside the church figured this out long ago. And they kept walking.
Out-of-the-institutional church people have a golden opportunity to take matters into their own hands. And cut the middle man (or woman) out.
We must overcome evil with good. Every Christian must be or become a minister (servant) in Jesus' name! If you haven't noticed - trouble is everywhere.
Our Lord declared: Freely you received - now freely give. Not: Freely you received in order to repackage and turn a profit.
Jesus Christ - the greatest story ever... sold.
David,
With all the good Christians already do in this world, we need more freedom to do more. Not to earn our salvation, but to enjoy it to the full! The limits that modern traditional structures place on us often pleases our flesh, but they steal away our joy in Jesus!
Paul wrote to Timothy: :
2 And the things which you have heard from me in the presence of many witnesses, these entrust to faithful men, who will be able to teach others also. 2 Tim 2:1-3 NASB
Can there be anything more wonderful than the flow of the River of Life coming forth from one to another, and then all over again? Yet, our traditions often keep this blessing for a special class of individuals.
This is very interesting. I have not thoroughly studied Clement, but I remember his concern for heading the wisdom of the elders in Corinth. Campbell is saying that he is fighting to keep out the "one man rule" over the congregations as well.
One of my favorite writers has a fine blog. And a facebook page too. Do check them out. Trust me, you will not be disappointed.
Dan Beaty has been a Christian for quite a while and has served in many voluntary ministries. Along with his faithful wife Brenda.
He has embarked on several self-financed international mission trips and published several free books, too. Prior to the internet, he sent out monthly Christian newsletters to thousands of eager children here and abroad.
I can only wish that there were an army of like-minded Kingdom workers.
You are asking a question which few others, at this time, even care about. In their minds the role of the elders is to help the pastor do the work of the ministry.
Shepherding is a big deal in the mind of Jesus. "Peter, do you love me?" Then "feed my lambs". Thus we read that the elders who were appointed to the shepherding task were done so "with prayer and fasting."
Likewise in the mind of the apostle: "This is a faithful saying. ANYONE who desires to be an overseer desires a good work."
A work, a duty - not an office. And I inquire: Does not Satan strive to keep Christians from their duties, obligations, and responsibilities???
What we can agree upon is that the natural man cannot get enough hierarchy. Nor enough money to go with it. Therefore we see the pattern of "preachers" being "called" to larger churches. Seldom smaller ones...
Like many scholarly works, Alastair Campbell's Elders - Seniority book began as a university thesis. He describes his goals here, a couple of years before the book was published. Naturally, by the time of publication, some of his views were slightly modified (corrected).
Modern scholarship is finally undergoing a much needed shift regarding the identity of the elders. And a more biblical position, I might add. Needless to say, "modern scholarship" and the "seminary / clergy system" are inextricably tied together. They are not going to bite the hand which feeds them.
Welcome Dr. Trice. Would you happen to be a descendent of Jehu? He couldn't find the brakes either. Haha.
Yes, we can do all things in the unstoppable name of Jesus the Christ.
This site is open source. After the manner of the ancient synagogues and early churches. So please do not hold your peace. Give us a word of exhortation when you can. We look forward to it.
The lookout reported, “He has reached them, but he isn’t coming back either. The driving is like that of Jehu son of Nimshi—he drives like a maniac.” 2 Kings 9.
After the reading from the Law and the Prophets, the leaders of the synagogue sent word to them, saying, “Brothers, if you have a word of exhortation for the people, please speak.” Acts 13.
T
Over the last few years, and especially most recently, I have been led to believe that house churches are not the answer to the question that I was seeking to answer. My goal, as someone who was completely dissatisfied with "church as we know it", was to be able to engage with my fellow saints on a much deeper level. As a disciple of Christ, I was only somewhat interested in the praise element of modern-day churches. Whenever I would read about confession (e.g. Psalm 51), I intuitively understood that there was something more to our gatherings even though I couldn't articulate what that "something" was. It wasn't until I left the institutional system that I was free to follow God's leading through the Holy Spirit. The demand of today's churches to conform to their traditions and a preconceived notion of who God is really constrains the believer. If your church has an enumerated list of steps to becoming a true disciple then you know that you are in big trouble. And let's be clear... creeds, catechisms, confessions, and other man-made documents are no different than any series of bullet points to becoming a better Christian that you'll often find in a weekly sermon at your local megachurch
Shortly after leaving the church, I found this website. I was curious about these "house church" things that I'd only heard of in theory, and a quick Google search led me here. As I read through the posts, I found a lot of camaraderie with my fellow believers. It quickly became an important resource for me as I attempted to navigate my way outside of the system. And it remains as such. Because my reason for leaving the system was to get out from underneath a false system of authority built up by the elders of my church, having the assurance that I was not somehow in violation of God's will for my life was extremely beneficial to me. (According to my last church, I was committing an unrepentant sin and therefore subject to eternal damnation for not being a church member.) I will forever be grateful to God for putting the House Church Network near the top of my search results that day
Fast forward to just this month. For the last few years, all of my fellowship has been online. In most cases, I have found this to be very edifying. There is no one to report to, no schedule to keep, and mostly I have learned so much from other Christians who have different perspectives than I do. I belong to a few different groups where those involved are willing to confess their sins to one another (James 5:16). I've also learned that holiness is not something to be shunned because then it supposedly allows me as a Christian to claim my works toward my own salvation. Instead, I desire to be holy for the sake of Christ. Of tall of he things that I've learned, most of them fall into a category of being a better disciple. And though I still retain a robust theological viewpoint, I really have no desire any more to argue the finer details of my beliefs. I've come the believe in these past few years that there are two categories of belief: there is faith (Matt 16:16), and then everything else is theology and not worth fighting over
So what has happened recently to influence my thinking on house churches? The answer to that question may be found in 1 Cor 14. Here the Bible tells us that the assembly of believers (ekklesia) is for the edification of the saints. All who are present are to use their gifts for the benefit of the others, with no centralize focus or leadership other than the Holy Spirit. At most, someone is facilitating the gathering, and there should be elders to help gently guide things back on track if they really go off the rails. But nowhere does the Bible speak of a centralized authority consisting of seminary trained men following a strict order of worship for the purpose of limiting the scope of our beliefs. There is no holding the faithful hostage to their membership vows. The assembly is a gathering of any believer who confesses that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God
In the last few months, I have had opportunities to fellowship with two different house churches in the Seattle area where I live. And I turned down both of them. In the first instance, an extensive doctrinal website talked a lot about unity (which I love), but it became clear after reading some of the material that unity would also mean conformity. So long as I agreed with their teachings then I would be ok, but if I were to step outside of their system (e.g. they do not allow women to teach) then I'd be back into the same situation that I had left. My second opportunity was with a group that seems much more relaxed, but the videos of their gatherings demonstrate one strong, central figure who did most of the teaching and answered a lot of the questions. While this group was more participatory than many of the groups that I've seen, I couldn't help but feel like the church was just a scaled down version of the institution where monologue is valued over dialogue
So for the moment, I'm sticking with YouTube and online forums for my discipleship training. That doesn't mean that I've given up all hope of finding a local assembly. What I'm looking for in a local group is the same style of interaction that I get online. Much like what we do here, I seek a place where any Christian may post whatever is on their heart and then we all talk about it in the light of Scripture. In all honesty, I wish that we did a bit more of that here, but for now **any** source of Godly discussion is a blessing. Perhaps someday God will bring me together with other Christians in my area, but for now I am content with all of the challenges that I get from my online friends who encourage me to live by the leading of the Holy Spirit each and every day